The minutes of the last Council meeting (21st September) record the following ‘Request for Report’ –
Crs Lobo/Magee: That a report be prepared on how Infringement Notices are issued to unauthorised sporting groups. The MOTION was put and LOST (8 to 1)
Thus the sole voice (Lobo) advocating some semblance of common sense in the ongoing saga of ‘unauthorised sporting activities’ was effectively muzzled. We highlight this issue because at its heart lie fundamental questions of:
- Due process and transparency
- Governance, and
- Propriety
Over the past few months we’ve become increasingly intrigued by the barrage of public questions emanating from one particular group and the failure of Council to provide reasonable and adequate responses. We’ve therefore embarked on a little research. According to both the Local Law of 2000 and the current 2009 version, it is an offence if a sporting ‘activity’ continues without a council permit. This was spelt out under clause 326 entitled ‘Organised Sporting Activities’ in the 2000 version:
“ Participating in, or allowing, a formal, structured or organised sporting activity, including practice, within a public reserve or on Council land other than in designated locations.Direction: An authorised officer of the Council may require a person participating in or allowing a formal, structured or organised sporting activity within a public reserve or on Council land without a permit to immediately cease the activity and leave the reserve or Council land.”
The 2009 version is basically the same, except for the addition of the one liner – “This clause should not unreasonably capture smaller informal groups.” Of course, ‘smaller informal groups’ (ie: 4 people, 6, 8, 15?) is never defined and that is the crux of the problem which has a long history.
BACKGROUND HISTORY
Some of you may remember the public humiliation that Council experienced following the ‘kids in the park’ and the football ‘shleppers’ incidents of 2007. To refresh people’s memory we offer the following YouTube highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itNQ_Z1nbm8
http://www.youtube.com/user/shleppers#p/a/u/1/PyvhEs-K0QQ
Close on the heels of this shleppers debacle, we then had the ‘kids in the park’ fiasco. All the major broadsheets and TV channels had a field day. These are some of the headlines:
“Watch out for the fun police Council threat to fine kids for playing in a park”
“Premier, stars slam fun police”
“Two’s company, fees for crowds”
“Council backs down on threat to fine park users Kids beat fun police”
“No play; festival OK”
“Premier plays bal”
“$5000 fine just for playing football”
The real significance however lies in the comments made by council representatives, such as Paul Burke. We quote:
“… if there’s a group of people turning up regularly to use the facility, any reasonable person would believe it’s an organised group,” he (Burke) said. (Herald Sun, 27th Nov., 2007)
““Well, if you run in ones and twos, I don’t think there’d be a problem,” he (‘affable official) replied. But what if we wanted to dash about as a pack and support each other’s efforts? “Then you’d need a permit.” (Herald Sun, 28th Nov., 2007)
“”Every other club, every other group, is abiding by the rules and regulations. This is a group of guys who are saying `We don’t think the regulations apply to us. Up yours’.” (Burke: Herald Sun, 25th May, 2007)
In the end of course, with pressure from Brumby, Ian Thorpe and other Olympians, Council back peddled at supersonic speed. The ‘kids in the park’ had not only won, but council was ridiculed in taking such a sledge hammer approach to a bunch of cute little kiddies running around an oval. The about face is evidenced by this email from then Mayor, David Feldman – “all enforcement by council officers to be immediately suspended in relation to rules regarding organised sporting groups or any other parks-related policies that require judgements to be made by officers”. (Herald Sun, 30th Nov., 2007) In other words, what was perfectly ‘clear’ to any ‘reasonable’ person two days earlier, was now vetoed. But by whom? Councillors or the administration? Who has the power to change so called ‘policy’? Besides, the Local Government Act specifically states (Section 76E (2): “A Councillor must not direct, or seek to direct, a member of Council staff-
(a) in the exercise of a delegated power, or the performance of a delegated duty or function of the Council; or
(b) in the exercise of a power or the performance of a duty or function exercised or performed by the member as an authorised officer under this Act or any other Act”
So who made the decision? If councillors, then was this legal, since this email from Feldman went out a month before anything even resembling the issue was brought up before a full council meeting (December 18th, 2007)!! Who was pulling the strings here?
THE PRESENT
Having emasculated their own law to a large extent, Council now faces the absurd situation of groups who have paid for permits seeing OTHER GROUPS WHO HAVE NOT PAID FOR PERMITS GETTING OFF SCOT FREE – time after time, after time, after time. This is the cause of the current onslaught of public questions to council. The questions are important: is there one rule for one group and another rule for others? Are some, more ‘equal’ than others? Why pay $1600 when others get the same for nothing? Are some in fact, beyond the reach of the law, which has not been rescinded, and which was endorsed in the updated 2009 Local Law? Why are Council allowing this to continue? The past is obviously an important factor – but we believe there are other, even more important influences at work here.
Several of the public questions allege that certain councillors may have a decided ‘conflict of interest’ in this issue since they are ‘relatives’ and ‘mates’ of the specific group in question. At this last council meeting the minutes reveal that in response to a direct public question on this point, both Tang and Lipshutz did not answer the question. Instead, they cited the legalese whitewash of the Municipal Inspector’s report. Why did they not simply deny the allegation? Nothing could have been easier than to say ‘no’ – I’m not in any way associated with this group’. Lipshutz unbelievably claimed that the question was ‘vague’!!!!
We copy below a discussion taken directly from Facebook which is irrevocable proof that:
- This group does not have a permit
- This group is ‘organised’
- This group intends to infringe the current and past law by subterfuge and
- This group includes Josh Lipshutz – the son of Michael Lipshutz. (Readers should note that once the public questions started flowing, the photo of Josh disappeared from the website)
The discussion (minus the names of individuals and editing for the sake of brevity) goes:
Person ‘A’ – The title says it all. Ladies and Gents we have a problem and I want to open it up to discussion. Here is the problem.
As of yesterday Monday 23rd Feb 09 we were warned that we must speak to the Glen Eira City Council for allocation of sporting grounds to continue playing Ultimate Frisbee in and around the local parks, and until then play must be discontinued. This message was delivered by a park ranger and I followed up by speaking to a Ms Belinda Smith (co-ordinator in this area) and was told that many clubs have already be(en) turned away and that they are not taking further applications for permits to play at local sporting grounds. This is due to the destruction on the sporting ovals and that with the drought in full force, the clubs who already have arranged to play, may have to forfeit their games due to destroyed ovals.
OK, where to from here? We have been given some options.
– Local school sports grounds. (Belinda Smith advised this)
– Princes Park non sporting oval areas such as the grass outside Caulfield Recreation Centre. (Belinda said this was ok, BUT that we may get fined none the less for playing there as it is a non-ball-game area, and we are an ‘uncontrolled sport’.
– We could shift the matches to a) Point Ormond (the end of Glen Eira Rd) b) the field down the road from the Malvern Town Hall (that being in another council district and therefore buying us more time) c) can shift to play in St Kilda, the grass just outside Soul Mama
Please voice your opinion here I for one would love to hear it, and feel our whole group needs to decide what to do. I will also try arrange a meeting so we can sit down and discuss this.
Thank you for your support so far, we look forward to rebuilding as soon as possible. Please notify all those who played but are not a part of this group that they must join us as soon as possible to keep in the loop.
Person ‘B’ – Well, well, well.. it seems to be ‘1984’ here in Caulfield.
I too have rang our friend Linda, and she told me that, we CANNOT use the fields.. I reminded her (of) an email, that floated around Late November, regarding the banning of children using Princes Park, and the Deputy Mayor claiming that the law is to be suspended. The article is below 🙂
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,22845193-2862,00.html
I wil be contacting our friends Mary Bolling & Ian Royal.. i also mentioned this to Linda, and she said, OK, as she choked on her words.. I guess the embarrassment of this last time hasnt left her office, as she was quite surprised i knew about it.. The conversation quickly ended, as she tried to back-pedal.. quite funny..
Anyway.. not really in the state to be fighting City Councils, but someone may as well take my rage, and it looks like Linda has a nice, pretty target on her..
I’ll keep you informed 🙂 All hail Winston Smith…
Person ‘C’ – …..The other option,
Person ‘D’ – i wholeheartedly support this fight against the council, not to mention any other establishment. curse my unexplainable resentment of authority…we could use a rotation system, swapping from park to park while the council chases us. it would essentially be a sort of cat and mouse game, running from the firm hand of the law.
Person ‘E’ – As much as I would rather be throwing a frisbee around than wasting energy fighting council, attention here is our key leverage point. The more attention we can bring to this cause, the better, as this seems to be a cycle the council will act upon.
Person ‘F’ – This has been an issue for some time, surely you all remember the fight between Schleppers’ football and the council some years ago. it was only a matter of time before the council got to us as well.
Person ‘A’ – Thanks to all those who attended the meeting, your input was fantastic. Please everyone notice that there is a frisbee match this sunday. Please tell me if you didnt get the invite.
Ok the lowdown. …I will be hosting one game a week. I will attempt to keep it localised to one day and not keep shifting too much in the week. Monday or Sunday are my preferred days. Note that this week is a Sunday match and is posted at 3PM and not at the usual time of 6PM. Monday matches will be at 6PM. (i just cant play this monday). Further Sunday matches will take place in winter when the sun goes down too early for people to make it from work.
The matches will be played in various locations. I will be posting the location order on the group page. We will be playing at the Elwood fields (next to StKilda Marina), Elsternwick Park, Orrong Park. These fields will be rotated one per week to avoid the attention of any one council. Yes it is out of Caulfield, but seriously people deal with it.
Where to from here? We will continue the rotational method for now and hopefully, we can arrange some matches in Caulfield Park which will be a Picnic Match that involves the use of picnic equipment as legitimate excuses to play on their fields and therefore circumvent crap from the council. (will post more details some time soon about this).Ok ladies and gents,
Thanks for the input, it was appreciated. I look forward to seeing you all back at the fields. Please bring some friends to play!!!! (End of Discussion)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CONCLUSIONS
This entire mess is of council’s own doing. The shleppers footy debacle goes back as far as 2003! What we have here is a reactive and intractable bureaucracy that likes to wield its power like a sledge hammer. Reasonable laws they could be (with some tinkering), but they have never been ‘reasonably’ enforced! The examples are numerous – threatening to fine a bunch of residents in Bentleigh who for 25 years have lovingly tended their agapanthus plants on their nature strips and thus beautifying their street; last year’s ‘decision’ not to fine dog owners who fail to pick up their dog’s faeces the first time, when clubs at Princes Park were yelling blue murder. So the end result is that up to this ‘decision’ – not one dog owner had received a penalty! The list goes on and on. So now, when the heat comes on, or when council is humiliated, we witness a 180 degree swing to the opposite direction – no fines, no noise, no publicity, please!!!!! A great way to run a council isn’t it?
PLEASE NOTE: we are certainly not advocating that groups who are ratepayers should be denied access to local parks, nor should they be hounded and threatened with fines as the above groups were. What these examples illustrate above all is that when Council introduces a law that is unenforceable, draconian, or makes no sense to the local community, it is a recipe for disaster.
More importantly however, these events touch on crucial governance and transparency issues. We ask, and demand answers to:
- What role have both Lipshutz and Tang played in this whole affair?
- What role has the administration played in not enforcing the law?
- Who makes decisions on policy in this council?
- Where is the ‘transparency’ that the Municipal Inspector demanded? Why are decisions continually made behind closed doors?
- Why was Lobo’s ‘request for a report’ defeated 8 to 1? Who is hiding what?
- Does this council believe that through its non-action that it is serving the principles of ‘equal justice’ to all?
We eagerly await the next episode of ‘Right to Reply’ at next council meeting!!!!
September 26, 2010 at 2:15 PM
a disgusting affair. But it’s typical – never say we’re wrong or we’re sorry but always try to wheedle out of things. Those blokes who keep asking questions should be congratulated for their persistence and their refusal to cow tow to the bullies that make up this council.
September 26, 2010 at 3:09 PM
Thank you Glen Eira Debates for letting us know what is really going on in our local community and what the Councillors really get up too, I cant wait for the next set of elections!
September 26, 2010 at 5:31 PM
How come Magee seconds a motion and then votes against it. From what I hear the arguments opposing the request for report were unbelievably lousy. They tried to make it sound as if Lobo’s request was unintelligible or unclear and confused. another whitewash. They’re definitely hiding something here.
September 26, 2010 at 11:15 PM
When one person requests something and eight others gang up on him, then this sounds like collusion to me. There’s no doubt that the questioin ‘what is there to hide’ is perfectly legitimate in such as case. Lobo should be applauded for having the guts to break the mould. His other utterances on planning issues also deserve commendation – they stand in sharp contrast to the arrogance of Lipshutz and the waffling verbal diarrhea of Tang. Never before has there been a Mayor who so much enjoys the sound of his own voice. No other mayor has taken each opportunity to ‘sum up’ ad nauseum. Someone should provide him with an abridged rule book and tell him straight up that he is putting everyone to sleep.
September 26, 2010 at 11:44 PM
Yes, well done Oscar good to see someone is standing up to these bullies and speaking up for the people. Lobo for next Mayor I say.
September 26, 2010 at 9:16 PM
It is high time that Lips-shut takes a back seat and think over how he is reacting. On the other hand, Magee needs to join the Kindergarten or perhaps Elstenwick Child-care and learn some nursery rhymes. He needs to listen to himself propogating that he is responsible for building up GESA what a baloney! Grapevines say that he is aiming to be a Mayor for the opening of GESAC in 2011.
September 26, 2010 at 9:38 PM
Intrigue and back room deals continue to haunt this council. This time though it sounds damn serious. Even if there is no technical conflict of interest, the perception of unbiased decision making has completely evaporated. Both Lipshutz and Tang have to fess up! Nor does any of this reflect well on Burke and Newton. What have they done to avoid all this? Just goes to show that even lawyers like Lipshutz and Tang are not above suspicion – they should know better.
September 27, 2010 at 1:02 PM
For a council that is so image conscious this really stinks. Perceptions of fairness and probity are vital if as the Inspector said, the community is to have any confidence in its elected officials and those that are paid for by ratepayers. There is a clear case to answer here. Did Lipshutz and Tang use their ‘influence’ in any shape or form to ensure that the frisbee group was never fined? Is that why Lobo has been shut up and couldn’t get his request for a report through? Makes one suspect that all councillors may be complicit in this vote of 8 to 1. The hypocrisy of Magee in seconding and then voting against is unbelievable. I’m also concerned by what Burke has been quoted as saying earlier. This alone smacks of double standards and officers who are either hobbled by councillors, or the administration. Either way the questions that Glen Eira posed must be answered if we are ever to believe another word that comes out of this council.
My reading of the inspector’s report is that because an official ‘vote’ on the issue of such sporting groups has never been taken, this is not good enough to get them off. I’ve no doubt that discussions after discussions have taken place over the years. The formality of a ‘vote’ is thus nothing more than an excuse, a loophole that has been used to avoid the uncomfortable fact that there is much going on that is not 100% kosher. We have a right to know about this. Thank you Glen Eira for bringing it to our attention.
September 26, 2010 at 9:56 PM
What a load of absolute garbage (I wont swear!) In 2003 there was no problem with grounds no drought and yet there were fines for kids kicking a footy around. Since when is there also a no ball game zone. When did this new law come into operation. Let them try to fine me for playing footy in Maple st. I’ll sue the pants off them. Get out lipshutz your a waste of space
September 26, 2010 at 10:26 PM
The public questions are mine, I will say this again we DO NOT want the Frisbee group to stop playing, they are doing exactly what we want to do and thats have some harmless fun. But this wont go away whilst they abide by a different set of rules to everyone else. We are happy for them to play everyday at Caulfield Park provided Council offer us and everyone else the same opportunity. At the moment we need a permit, they dont, WHY? I am saying nothing is being done about them because a Councillors son plays with them and they are mates with the Mayor, How would I know this? It was told to me by other frustrated park users. It was then confirmed to me when I met Cr Tang for a meeting, unfortunately he wont admit to it when I ask it as a public question. To me this does not reflect well on the Councillors, infact it stinks. I was fined 3 times personally back in 2007, the first for being “An organised sporting group” yet I received an individual fine??? I said OK if we are an organised sporting group (which I know we are not) I will apply for a Council sporting grant then. I went to the Council workshop and could not answer the first 2 questions, “What is your groups name” and “Are you incorporated” we did not have either, Councils consultant said we are not an organised sporting group as we dont meet the criteria for being one, we couldnt answer the first two questions, but for the purpose of issuing a fine we were deemed one??? Talk about having your cake and eating it too! My next 2 fines were for “Damage, Destruction and Interference with Council land”. ARE YOU SERIOUS, I was being treated like a bulldozer or tractor. Anyhow I had a meeting with Council and we agreed that if we followed the Laws and got Public Liability Insurance and a permit as required in Local Laws, the fines would be waived, so we did just that even though we did not agree with it. We have since not been told otherwise from Council so to us the same rules still apply. Even though I have asked on multiple occasions via public questions “are permits required” yet the answer back from Council is “that is our expectation”, well that means nothing to me, they are either required or they are not, simple one or the other? Why wont they give a definitive answer? Would it incriminate the Frisbee group? Let the Frisbee group play just like they are still doing, we couldnt care less, BUT its unacceptable to then tell us come summer time like the last few years “Hey see you later from Caulfield Park”. So they expect us to just march off somewhere else in Summer whilst we watch their mates and relatives play (without a permit) as they like? PLEASE, show us some respect, How is this allowed to continue? I have no doubt if the Frisbee group knew all the facts even they would agree with us.
September 26, 2010 at 10:51 PM
You’ll be pleased to know Nick, that with this council it’s not so much a matter of what you do, but who you are as to fines, and how much of a stink you kick up. My neighbour has been pulled up by rangers five times – she has given her name, got an official warning, but has never been fined. Yet I know of others who cop it all the time! Why? Because they ask awkward questions and refuse to be intimidated or bullied!
September 27, 2010 at 3:19 PM
what I can’t believe is that I get charged council rates, aprt of which is for the provision of gardens and RECREATIONAL areas where I can exercise and take my family, associate with my friends or commune with nature.
This always has been and always should be available for groups or individuals alike.
That the council can target any one group from playing sport and ignore other groups is beyond a joke.
If the council were to cling to the “drought” in perpetuem then that also is a joke. Water restrictions are being relaxed now and for good reason.
Water issues aside, there are a number of council sanctified teams eg all the Maccabi clubs playing on our parks.
these teams cause more damage to the grounds and reserves than any social group or family collectives that use the parks. These teams don’t have to worry about the damage done, in fact, the council maintains grounds for them…
Why do other people get treated differently ? After all, as perviosly mentioned, we pay the rates !!
September 27, 2010 at 4:07 PM
Chris there’s even more to it than this. I wonder how many sporting clubs that ‘officially’ use our parks and reserves are actually based in Glen Eira? I know that there’s the Sandringham Dragons, and the South Melbourne soccer club that use Princes Park. Why are we allowing ‘outsiders’, when there’s obviously a huge demand from our own residents – be they organised or not. How many other clubs from outside are being given permits and in the process local kids are banned from using these grounds. The bottom line of course is always money. They reap thousands from letting out these grounds, so it doesn’t matter where they come from. A dollar is a dollar to this council and to hell with local residents and their needs.
September 27, 2010 at 3:59 PM
I also play with Nick and Chris’s group. We are not going to sit back and watch other groups use the park just like the Frisbee group while we have to go elsewhere, or nowhere at all. This is a joke, I cant believe Council can get away with this, why? Just because you are related or friends with Councillors gives you no right to:
A) Be above the Law,
B) Or be above every other Law abiding group.
This must stop immediately, or Council must come out and say it equal rights for all groups. If they think there is a racket now, well just wait and see the noise if this rort continues!
Lipshutz, I voted for you, do something about it.
September 27, 2010 at 7:31 PM
More people need to let council know that this issue of different rules for different groups needs to be addressed. Council always have a way of shying away from the main issue here. Why can’t they just give you a straight YES or NO answer? They always backpeddle because they know that there is definitely a ‘ conflict of interest’. Isn’t that right Cr Lipshitz and Cr Tang?
Nick, I think you and your group should do what the Frisbee group do. And that is come summer time, just turn up. If it’s OK for the Frisbee crew to play at Caulfield Park without a permit, then you do the same mate. Then they can get the park ranger to run around and start asking every Tom, Dick and Harry for their names so they can be issued with a fine. Seriously, what an absolute joke. Councillors, are all just puppets on a string. When it suits them, they have a voice and when it doesn’t, they just plead ignorance.
If one group can be allowed to play without a permit and another cannot, WHY? Is that such a hard question to answer?
I think the media needs to be made aware of this issue, just like it was with the Schleppers. We need to get tough and take further action.
Don’t let the Glen Eira Council dictate terms. They are sooo naive and ignorant, that they can’t even see how much damage this is doing to their own reputation. Your all a joke Councillors.
September 27, 2010 at 10:14 PM
Its very disappointing, and frustrating, to learn that some councilors, rather than perform the duties for the benefit of their residents (ie do the job for which they were elected), prefer to push their own agendas. When nepotism appears to be alive and well (appears quite obvious given the content of this article) for such fundamental issues as “park use”, one can only wonder as to the transparency of other projects/decisions being acted on? While I realize that its near impossible for rules and regulations to cover all circumstances, it sounds as though a bureaucracy is being used to impede the process rather than use common sense to provide a solution. (councilor Lobo’s request being the exception, well done Cr Lobo!)
When’s the next election!
September 27, 2010 at 10:26 PM
Guess which group was having a great game of frisbee in caulfield park last sunday lunchtime. And not a warden in sight. They must have been out to lunch with Lipshutz and Tang – the wardens that is!
September 28, 2010 at 11:07 AM
It fascinates me that the council can issue a fine to an individual for “Damage, Destruction and Interference with Council land” for playing social soccer in a public park when the same council permits the festival to go ahead every year, where trucks are driven onto Caulfield Park’s playing surface. How hypocritical! This council needs to be reminded that it has been elected by the people to represent each and every resident equitably and fairly. If it cannot operate under these terms, the members of the current Glen Eira Council should step aside and make way for a council that can!!
September 28, 2010 at 2:55 PM
It looks like the Wardens are not allowed to go near the Frisbee group as B1 and B2 have perhaps told them not to go near their family and friends, surely they must abide by the same rules and regulations as all the other groups and this is not true?
Good work Mr Lobo, keep them honest.
September 28, 2010 at 9:45 AM
Jim, you are correct. It time we stand up to the puppets,. (rest of sentence edited out: moderators)
This is a clear case of discrimination.
I shall be in contact with Nick V and happy to fund/support on any law suit or legal action he or his group would like to move forward with.
Cr Lipshitz and Cr Tang your should step down immediately. You are a DISGRACE !!!
September 28, 2010 at 11:23 AM
(rest of sentence edited out: moderators)
My comments was I suggested your group to go and play on the same oval and same time as the fresbie group. No idea why this was edited out.
Conflict of interest perhaps?
MODERATORS’ RESPONSE: Dear George, your initial comment was different in its wording to what you have now posted. We certainly do not have any ‘conflict of interest’ apart from establishing the truth and protecting our correspondents and ourselves. If you care to email us directly on gedebates@gmail.com
we would be pleased to elaborate further.
September 28, 2010 at 3:13 PM
In wording?
The truth is black and white, its a shame the council cannot give a black and white reply to all the questions.
September 28, 2010 at 3:21 PM
B1 and B2 – hahaha – Well if that is the case, i shall organise each week that a game is played whilst the Frisbee group are playing.
Its just been brought to my attention they actually are playing on Caulfield Parks main oval. ( Prime turf )
As i dont have “facebook” can someone please send an extra from the Frisbee “facebook” page which states the time & location.
Thank you in advance.
September 28, 2010 at 3:32 PM
George, there is another game scheduled, and we quote: “Sunday, October 3 · 10:00am – 12:30pm”. The URL for this is: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=105216016207094&index=1
September 28, 2010 at 3:30 PM
As i dont have “facebook” can someone please send an extract from the Frisbee “facebook” page which states the time & location
Moderators: You need to sign up to view Facebook pages. However, we have cut and pasted the following message which is on the relevant page:
To all Ultimate Frizbee Fantatics!!
This will now be a weekly event on Sunday mornings at 10am depending on the weather of course.
If you have any questions, please feel free to call Adz on (deleted)
Please meet on the cnr of Balaclava and Bambra Roads
September 28, 2010 at 6:33 PM
This is a serious issue and misuse of power. Rules and governance should be equally applied and should represented the interests of the people. In this case it is clear that those have been compromised and should not ben tolerated. The council should be ashamed!! I also wonder how much more has been abused from the same councillors. “Where there is smoke there is fire”. Bring on the next election or even better please stand down immediately
September 30, 2010 at 7:42 AM
Tony, one does not have to wait for the next elections which are only due in 2012. Most of the councillors think that this site is entertained by a hand full and not the entire residents of Glen Eira. All such remarks i.e. “stand down immediately”, “they are definitely hiding something” “waffling verbal diarrhea” and others will continue if residents do not take this matter seriously.
What is required is a mass demonstration in front of the Council building with press in attendance.
September 30, 2010 at 12:49 PM
This sounds like a ridiculous situation which has got totally out of control. The councillors should be spending their time focused on ‘real issues’ in the community rather than stopping a healthy sports activity! Election time is never too far away and these sort of messy affairs stick around long after the dust has settled.
Focus on doing your job councillors and let people enjoy their own community and parks that they have a right to use!!
September 30, 2010 at 1:30 PM
I Cant believe that the council has chosen to exercise its authority in such a way that impacts the community in such a negative fashion.
Isn’t the role of the council to both support and foster the community??
What a shambles..
Adam
September 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM
This doesnt seem very smart does it? Why would the very group that is paid by the community to support & develop the community consider this action in the best interests of the community?!
September 30, 2010 at 10:39 PM
Whats happened to good old fashion family fun!
We cannot as a family group, walk to our local park and have a game of football, because we are ‘supposedly’ an organized group.
We cannot get a bunch of friends together, on a Sunday arvo and play a game of soccer, in fear of getting fined.
It’s bureaucracy gone mad!
Pull your socks up councillors, we are the ratepayers and expect fair and reasonable treatment for all. We do not expect favourable treatment for a select few and the rest of us, made to grin and bare it.
Parks are for family and friends to share.
Give us our parks back!
October 3, 2010 at 3:39 PM
Bureaucracy and officialdom gone mad! Surely our elected representatives can have a more positive impact in our community than this.
October 4, 2010 at 11:56 AM
I cant believe that this could happen in this day and age! I mean, really. The council should be working on far more important things than this. a right waste of time.
October 5, 2010 at 12:11 PM
I do not usually worry about the comments of a blogsite, which is prone to making wild accusations, prone to fundamental errors of fact* and prone to putting a negative slant on any Council decision**.
However, I write in response to what I view as character assassination of the worst kind.
Despite having an allegation of conflict of interest fully investigated and determined by the Municipal Inspector some posters to this blogsite have felt that it is ok to make wild accusations against my character.
In response to these spurious allegations:
1. I have a general belief that the parks of Glen Eira are there for people to use and Council should do its best to ensure they are suitable to support a diversity of recreational interests.
2. I have been found by an independent umpire to have no relevant connection to a “frisbee group”.
3. The allegation is that I know a person or people in the group and further more that they are my friends.
4. I accept that I know people that have been named to me as being part of this group. I have not spoken to anyone in this “frisbee group” prior to, during or after any game of Frisbee about their status.
5. I personally have many friends who live, work or play in Glen Eira. I have known many of them prior to being elected to Council and I have met many more as a Councillor. Councillors should be part of the community and it is unavoidable that they will be friends with many residents, ratepayers or groups.
6. If I wasn’t the subject of such a vitriolic campaign against my character I would not have to give intimate details of how well I do or do not know individuals in the Glen Eira community. The fact is, however, that I have spoken to a handful of people who have identified themselves on this blogsite more than I have spoken to people who have been said to me to be part of this “frisbee group”.
7. A poster to this blogsite is being less than forthright in his campaign against my character. The poster has previously made complaints to me and to the Council about “Indians” playing cricket, Russians playing soccer and other groups of soccer players. These groups appear to be in the same position as the “frisbee group”, but you do not hear about them because it doesn’t fit the narrative.
8. Whilst I accept that the Caulfield Park Social Soccer group has had issues with the law, I do not believe there is widespread concern that people are using the parks. The permit and allocation system provides the security of exclusive use for any group that has an allocation at that time. I strongly encourage any group that wants to compete in a regular organised game to enter the permit and allocation system. It works for the thousands of residents and ratepayers that play and train for the hundreds of active Glen Eira-based teams each and every week.
9. Again it does not fit the Caulfield Park Social Soccer Club narrative of persecution to acknowledge that the local law has been used to respond to a complaint that one of the above-mentioned groups have been interfering with the allocation of a local junior sporting club.
10. The local law is no different to these comparison clauses,
Stonnington:
Use of Council Reserves
517 A person must not, without a Permit, in or on any Council Reserve:
(a) pitch, erect or occupy any tent, marquee or temporary shelter;
(b) light any Fire or allow any Fire to remain alight unless in a fireplace
provided by Council;
(c) hold any circus, carnival, fair, event, commercial or promotional
activity;
(d) conduct or celebrate any wedding;
(e) erect, fix or place any advertisement;
(f) conduct or attend any rally, procession, demonstration or other
public gathering;
(g) conduct, participate or prepare for any competitive game or sport;
Monash
Activities Prohibited in Reserves
18. In a reserve, a person must not:
18.1 unless that person is a player, official or competitor in or at a sporting
match or gathering, enter upon or remain on an area set aside as a playing
ground during the course of a sporting match or gathering;
18.8 play, engage in or practise any game or sport, whether or not in
accordance with a permit issued under this Local Law, in a manner that is:
18.8.1 dangerous to any other person in the reserve; or
18.8.2 likely to interfere with the reasonable use or enjoyment of the
reserve by any other person; or
5 penalty units
Activities which may be permitted in Reserves
19. In a reserve, a person must not, without a permit,
19.4 play, organise, practise or engage in any organised competitive sport or
game;
3 penalty units
11. There is no exact science in applying these laws, but Council needs to be mindful of the conditions of the ground and the risk that the ground will not be suitable for ongoing use if its surfaces are not protected to some extent.
12. The local law has been particularly useful when AFL football clubs run drills, including the dragging of weights, in Glen Eira parks.
13. The permit and allocation system and the rotation of the use of grounds allowed Council to provide the maximum use of sporting grounds in recent years, whilst other grounds elsewhere had been cited as either closed or not suitable for some sporting associations to allow match play.
14. People have a right to question and debate Council policy, but on this occasion the ongoing character assassination goes beyond the pale. I had thought that the finding of the independent umpire would be enough to put this issue to bed, however, I was mistaken. Some posters to this blogsite will clearly create a narrative to suit their purposes without regard for findings such as these. If you wish mere friendship to be the test of Councillor conflicts, elect Councillors with no connection the Glen Eira community.
15. I err on the side of maximising the use of our parks. This requires a balance between encouraging general use of the sporting grounds and protecting the grounds for those clubs who provide an outlet for so many in the community to engage in competitive sport. My gut feeling is that the current balance is appropriate.
*see for example – Glen Eira and Planning: Always the Odd Man Out – so called development levy compares a Developer Contributions Plan Overlay at Glen Eira with other Councils’ Public Open Space Contribution. NB: Glen Eira’s Public Open Space Contribution Schedule is contained in the same location as the comparison Councils, Schedule to Clause 52.01.
**There has been a highly selective comparison of planning outcomes outside of Glen Eira. There is a suggestion that part of the reason Glen Eira is developing the way it is is due to a lack of fight at VCAT. I do not believe any metropolitan Council is immune to losing arguments at VCAT about appropriate built form. Glen Eira sends representatives it believes can best represent the Council’s position, there are no guaranteed results. Similar scale developments have recently been heard in http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2010/1454.html and http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2010/1526.html.
October 7, 2010 at 9:12 AM
Steven, can i see this “fully investigated and determined by the Municipal Inspector ”
You obviously are reading the blogs, so please explain how your “MATES” the Frisbee group played an organised event on council land and no officer was present? it’s pretty clear from your extract above that the local law was not followed, Ops did you happen to miss the ORGANISED game of Frisbee, now that you have read the blog and replied you cant turn a blind eye this weekend and let the group play once again.
i actually spoke to a member of the Frisbee group, is it true you have in fact played with the group previously? A simple YES or No. Need i remind you u are under solemn oath.
October 7, 2010 at 9:23 AM
Lipshutz – Are you above the law? In the local paper the other week i believe you enjoyed walking your dog, did you follow the local rules?
Lipshutz – can you confirm that your son is a memember of the Frisbee group? This is not character assassination, i just want to find out the TRUTH.
October 7, 2010 at 10:34 AM
It’s interesting to hear from Steven who says that ” I do not believe that there is widespread concern that people are using the parks”. I on numerous occasions have emailed Glen Eira Council and even supplied them with photographic evidence on the contrary. This particular group plays soccer every single Saturday between the hours of 7-9 am, at Lords Reserve in Munro Avenue, but council, true to their form, just turn a blind eye to it all.
It is interesting to note too, that although all the so called “groups” that appear to be in the same position as the frisbee group, you somehow fail to outline what position that is exactly. Is it one where they all seem to play on a regular basis but without any permit issued? What exactly is your point Stephen?