GESAC court battle over
10 Jan 12 @ 07:00am by Jenny Ling
Under the agreement, the Warriors will have access on Fridays and Sundays from 6pm to 11pm while McKinnon will have access on Saturdays from 8am to 11am.
McKinnon must also provide two alternative basketball courts to the Warriors on Saturdays or allocate the GESAC courts to the Warriors.
Warriors spokesman Bob Mann said the club was happy with the agreement. “It’s been dragging on for six or seven months so it’s important to move it forward,” Mr Mann said. “It puts it in McKinnon’s court, they’ve got to come up with two courts in the area to suit our purposes.”
Mayor Jamie Hyams said he hoped both clubs would agree to the conditions. If not, it would be “disappointing”, Cr Hyams said. “It means McKinnon teams won’t have access to GESAC.
“We would prefer they have access which is why we came up with this compromise.”
McKinnon Basketball Association spokesman James Cody said the club would agree. “It’s a strange way of doing things, but the council has obviously been constrained by legal issues,” Mr Cody said.
Building delays mean GESAC won’t be opened until as late as March.
Glen Eira Debates 
January 10, 2012 at 8:14 AM
It is beyond the realm of possibility that for once this council might produce some comments that are truthful and honest without resorting to the weasel words that are the hallmark of Newton, Burke, Lipshutz and Hyams. The ‘compromise” had nothing to do with the welfare of McKinnon Basketball club – if this was ever a real consideration, then they would have been granted the contract right from the start. The gang plus Forge voted for this new deal because they bought the story hook line and sinker that they could be sued. Absolute rubbish. No individual, small outfit like the warriors would take on council who wouldn’t have any qualms in using QCs and spending as much of my money as required. Hyams claim that “that’s why we came up with this compromise” is pure bunkum. He’s saved Burke’s neck via his casting vote and also successfully held a gun to the head of McKinnon basketball club. In the end a local club is paying for the stuff ups of Burke and councillors who didn’t bother to check up as to what was really going on. In the meantime residents have once again coughed up plenty of money in lawyer fees and the local community has been sold down the drain. Save the platitudes (and threats) Hyams. Use all your weasel words to try and get yourself re-elected! I’ve for sure got a long, long memory.
January 10, 2012 at 11:30 AM
For all this blogs rep as being on the ball, no-one has come up the reason why the Gang wanted the Oakleigh mob over the locals. Looking at who the Gang are and were there allegiances sit in our community. The conversation has been like blind Freddie fumbling around in the dark, or maybe just part of a like minded cover-up.
January 10, 2012 at 2:08 PM
Why oh why do residents contribute rates… to upgrade and enjoy community facilities… yep McKinnon gets a whole 3 hours on Saturday if it can find other courts for the Oakleigh Warriors!
Who’s using the courts outside the times reported.. “the Warriors will have access on Fridays and Sundays from 6pm to 11pm while McKinnon will have access on Saturdays from 8am to 11am.”
Can some Councillor or Officer let us know?
Where do McKinnon basketball club train… obviously not at GESAC.
The whole idea of this facility was to remove the burden of Glen Eira residents travelling to Waverley, Knox, Box Hill, Vremont and the like to get them and their kids to basketball.
What a disgrace.
January 11, 2012 at 2:58 PM
Mr Spaulding get your facts straight, even without GESAC, there are plenty of options for Parents not to have to travel out of their way to the venues you have named.
Also as an ex-councillor surely you should check the facts. If you go to the motion that was passed(which is listed in the website), the story has an obvious typo. The hours in the motion are listed as 8:00am to 11:00pm a little more than 3 hours!
Curious as to why Cr Magee didn’t correct that in his post!
Also as per most venues such as this, especially with just 3 courts, there will be no space for training. It will be taken up with competition from all sports. That’s the norm at nearly every such stadium.
January 10, 2012 at 4:00 PM
How could this resollution possibly bear any cause for celebration.
I proves beyond all reasonable doubt that our council was not even capable of letting the stadium to those who are rightfully entitled to use it.
I never wanted this huge indoor facility, or anything else where there should be open air and green grass, but I must acknowledge that the McKinnon basketballers worked for the facility and they should have been the preferred tenants not a set of strangers from another area.
January 10, 2012 at 7:55 PM
10/01/2012
When GE Council awarded the contract to build GESAC it was only for the pool hall.
It was the McKinnon Basketball Association that lobbied the then Labour government to fund the basketball stadium.
When the Brumby government came to announce the funding for the stadium, they did this at the McKinnon Secondary College the home of the MBA. They invited the McKinnon Basketball Association to be a part of that announcement, and it was the McKinnon Basketball Association representative who thanked the premier for the funding on behalf of all Glen Eira residents.
If it wasn’t for the McKinnon Basketball Association, there would be no basketball stadium at GESAC.
Jim Magee
January 11, 2012 at 2:03 PM
Funny that Jim as I remember the photo in the paper with the Premier quite well. Low and behold he was also pictured with a Warriors kid in that announcement !. This should have been about all our kids and not just wether they belonged to this or that Association.
Is it a fact Mr Magee that the MBA knocked back a number of compromises that would have delivered a regional competition that would have seen all kids in the area being able to play at GESAC and surrounding stadiums?
If so did you have knowledge of these compromise proposals and did you push for them to come to fruition? If not why not?
January 11, 2012 at 4:44 PM
Maybe you could refresh the Councillors memory and outline what the ‘number of compromises’ were. Moreso everyone would be keen to know why the 2 groups haven’t successfully got together prior to this.
If you have the information, now is a great time to share it.
January 11, 2012 at 5:03 PM
From what I understand there was at least two compromises put forward before they entered mediation, where there was no breakthrough. So that makes at least three opportunities for these compromises to be embraced.
January 11, 2012 at 5:57 PM
Can you list the conditions put forward. A group like McKinnon would certainly have considered a compromise if they were reasonable, wouldn’t they?
January 18, 2012 at 7:46 PM
I have kept checking back to this blog and to my disappointment no response from Cr Magee at all. There are many good questions on this thread for him to answer but no response at all.
In a word. Disappointing!!!
I have done some homework of my own over the break and have found the front page from the leader (Moorabin/Kingston edition, Wednesday, December 9th) in regards to the announcement and indeed the announcement included a Warriors player, a Bentleigh Lakers player and two netballers with the premier. No McKinnon representative in the photo or even a mention of them in the story.
To me this smacks of a misleading post from Cr Magee and he should correct himself on this thread and be gracious enough to apologise. Also there are a number of questions and statements on this thread deserving also of some answers and responses from Cr Magee. Especially those from Anon 9 which are deserving of an answer.
The silence simply reinforce that what posters have said here is indeed correct. I also managed to discover some detail on the compromises. It From what I can gather it surrounded a regional competition with all clubs in the area participating in it, with the Warriors retaining control of the GESAC venue and McKinnon of theirs with all teams playing venues on a home and away basis so all kids got to play at all venues.
Considering other sports such as football, cricket etc do this every weekend makes a great deal of common sense to me and all kids would have been a winner. Surely that’s what this should all be about.
Sounds like a great idea, was it pursued?
January 19, 2012 at 6:09 AM
And was one of the conditions that the current Fixturing manager, the MBA General Manager, not be involved in fixturing of this Competition? Maybe that was not a workable suggestion by the Warriors.
January 19, 2012 at 3:16 PM
I am amazed at this post and have pursued this matter further.
Is the above poster seriously telling us that the reason 1400 kids (as Cr Pilling keeps rabbitting on about) are missing out on a game at GESAC comes down to one person having control of fixtures???
That must be one very selfish individual to put their interests ahead of 1400 kids!!!!
I have asked about this as well and the condition you refer to is that an independent competition administrator be appointed to the regional comp. This also means that nobody from the Warriors would be involved as well, with both Associations funding the independent comepetition administrator.
That all makes plenty of sense to me and any fair-minded person with an ounce of common sense I would have thought. This is especially so considering the angst that has been created between these clubs.
Also apprently there were no conditions on people standing aside so this person could have comfortably remained in her current position.
So to the above poster thanks for the truth. The real reason kids cannot play at GESAC is because one person has a control/ego issue over others doing fixtures.
What an absolute disgrace that is, if this is true!!!
Maybe a certain adult should get out of the way so the kids can play.
Yet another question for Cr Magee to answer and respond to!!!
January 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM
Give us a break Jim. First of all check your ALP membership card and see how they spell Labor. You must be confusing the party with the British version, Labour. Secondly your recollection of the event when the money was committed is not so good as others have pointed out. The idea that the MBA has any more rights than any other Victorians is plain stupid. When we have endured hot days recently many of the Glen Eira residents have headed for the beaches in Bayside. These beaches are maintained by the Port Phillip. Bayside and Kingston Councils. I have yet to see the ratepayers of these cities screamiing out because non ratepayers are using their facilities. We are all very lucky that you lost the toss.
January 10, 2012 at 10:20 PM
Thank you Cr JM, that is very compelling outline you have just outlined.
And it only deepens my suspicion that full story on why the Gang wanted the Warriors to use the CESAC has not been told.
MODERATORS: Paragraph deleted due to inappropriateness and relevance to current issue
January 10, 2012 at 10:31 PM
I have refrained from commenting on this issue but the silly statements being made (including yours Jim – are you expecting us to believe that the State Government has fully funded the building of the basketball courts for the exclusive use of McKinnon?) are really getting annoying.
Some have claimed that McKinnon have a right to the basketball courts because they are a local club. However, I’m sure that the Warriors have many members living in Glen Eira just as McKinnon would have many members living outside Glen Eira. When my kids were younger they had swimming lessons in Malvern (no indoor pool in Glen Eira), played cricket in Brighton and basketball in Prahran and Albert Park. There was no suggestion that these sporting facilities (paid for by the local councils) were only for local kids. But many local kids WILL be using the GESAC basketball courts.
The evidence that we have is quite clear. The Warriors put in a much better proposal – higher usage (i.e. more kids have the opportunity to play at GESAC) and more money. If McKinnon have many more members than the Warriors, as they claim, why didn’t they put in a better bid? Clearly the club has stuffed up. And given the concerns expressed on this blog about the cost of GESAC, isn’t it reasonable for Council to take the bid which will give a better return – after all, any losses on GESAC will have to be covered by your rates.
There has been some speculation that Council favoured the warriors because of some special relationship with councillors or administration. Ok, let’s hear the evidence on that one.
We also know that there were discussions between McKinnon and the Warriors about giving McKinnon some access to the courts. It is clear they were unable to reach any agreement – but it would be logical to assume that the Warriors offered McKinnon some level of usage, which they obviously rejected. Probably thinking they could get a better deal by lobbying councillors.
And they did lobby councillors very strongly. We know (because they have acknowledged it) that McKinnon even made threats to campaign against councillors at the next election.
The arrogance of the McKinnon club was also on display when they stated that ” they had accepted on the condition that they could negotiate out of current leases with schools and that the Warriors were acceptable tenants”.
It seems to me that McKinnon assumed they would be given the courts without putting in any effort. That they were able to pressure some councillors into overturning an agreed process reflects badly on those councillors – that either they were unaware of the process or hadn’t thought through the consequences.
And here’s a final question for you Jim. If you are so concerned that local clubs be given preference for sporting facilities and given the shortage of sports grounds in Glen Eira, why does council lease the oval at Princes Park and the rooms in the DCBricker pavilion to a VFL team?
January 10, 2012 at 10:46 PM
Anyone can offer the world. But can the Warriors pay and fill the stadiums as they promised? What happens when they fall flat on their face? Will council sue them for breach of contract – after all, this council is pretty good in using lawyers at the drop of a hat. Would love to know how much effort really went into establishing the financial capacity of the warriors in comparison to McKinnon. Don’t forget, there were supposed to be 2 other criteria for appointment. Looks like the unholy dollar made up 99% of the evaluation.
January 10, 2012 at 11:23 PM
Glen Huntly, the point you raise in your final paragraph is definitely worth contemplating. Princes Park is not the only ground that caters for ‘externals’. Marlborough Reserve for example hosts teams from Albert Park and Sth Melbourne soccer. It’s definitely a very good question to ask why our sporting administrators find it necessary to lease out so many facilities to outsiders, especially when we’re repeatedly told, including by yourself, that we are experiencing a shortage of sporting grounds. I think most people would be amazed at the number of outsiders that this council caters for. Of course, they will never release the real figures, and claim that they don’t know who consitutues each club’s memberships. I’ve been told though, that all clubs must submit the names and addresses of participating members. These should be on file, so suburbs, or even post codes can be traced. The results would be most embarrassing I believe.
I’m also wondering whether this “preference” for outsiders has anything to do with money, or ‘I don’t give a damn’ attitude. There can’t be too much difference in what each ground allocation for a soccer game would charge. So, if it’s not money, then residents need to ask why this is happening throughout all sports and councillors again need to ensure that they set the priorities and oversee them vigilantly, because it is becoming pretty blatant that this administration just cannot be trusted to work in the best interests of the local community.
January 11, 2012 at 10:09 AM
I does raise the question with Glen Eira so short of parks for residents to relax in. Why are we keeping so much valuable open space as sporting areas for non ratepayer when we the local could have quality open space.
Maybe it time we had a audit of all our open space areas, and just see how much of it is used for passive, sporting and who uses it for what, when.
With this information we could then fairly use our open space fairly among the community. Telling residents that they can use sporting areas as recreational areas, only when the sporting group do not want it, is a insult, as these areas are totally set up for one purpose, that is sport, as it makes 10 rate passive recreation areas, they in-effect serve narrow minimal values.
The City Glen Eira is burning the candle from two ends, firstly it has the lowest amount of open space in Victorian, most likely Australia, the shortage is not just a little, it is a huge deficit by conservative standards. Meanwhile we are one of the quickest population growing councils meeting our projected prediction 5 years a head of expectation, and we are still booming ahead. Private open space is vanishing at record levels. Trees are disappearing in record levels.
I would like to know just what is Gen Eira’s plan to provide for the a sustainable future in open space and trees.
Is it going to be more parks and tree disappearing to provide buildings, carparks and more sporting areas. As we have seen recently manyparks are loosing out badly as to carpark extension, new buildings and access roads being built willy-nilly and in plenty.
We do have a election coming up this year and I for one will only support candidates that understand these open space problems, and will also stand-up for our open space areas.
All our current councillors with the exception of the Greens Cr Neil Pilling have has a history of selling out our open space areas for development, and they have no view to the looming future.
Although Cr. Tang and Cr Penhalluriack did not support the Bailey reserve GESAC carpark land grab.
January 11, 2012 at 12:51 PM
Your support of Cr Pilling is touching but incorrect. It was Cr Pilling who supported C60. He doesn’t care about open space issues in Glen Eira. Time to elect some Councillors who do.
January 11, 2012 at 2:49 PM
As a former member of the MBA executive I have listened to enough of the continued absolute nonsense of people claiming the Warriors are an outside club to the city of Glen Eira. This is simply pure and utter garbage. For you Cr Magee to come onto this forum with the argument you have made simply shows you up as being totally ignorant of both facts and history.
Are people on this blog aware that the Warriors were a founding club of the McKinnon Basketball Association and were founded and have existed in Glen Eira for every bit as long as the McKinnon Basketball Association?
Are people on this blog aware that the Warriors also were a part of the lobbying effort for courts at GESAC? A minor fact that Cr Magee conveniently leaves out?
I was at the announcement for GESAC at McKinnon SC, there was no McKinnon representative there at all, The then Premier, John Brumby was there, the then local member Rob Hudson was there and the school had two students wear their clubs uniforms to the photo. One of them wearing a Warriors uniform as that was his club.
Are posters on this blog also aware that the original club of the MBA the McKinnon Lakers as it was known then, played games out of the old stadium at Albert Park before moving on and joining another Association?
Would posters also be aware that Surprise! Surprise! the Association they moved to for a period of close to three years was none other than the Oakleigh Basketball Association?
The total hypocrisy and lack of statements of actual facts and history here is mind-numbing. According to some including our esteemed councillor it’s ok for the McKinnon Association to use facilities outside the City of Glen Eira but not ok for others to use facilities within it.
It’s also alright to lay claim that the McKinnon Basketball Association is the local club without recognising the Warriors history and service within the City of Glen Eira.
Maybe councillor Magee and others should do their research properly and investigate fully events surrounding the behaviour of the management of the McKinnon Basketball Association back in 2009 and their actions and behaviour then when expelling 120 families out of junior sport before, passing judgements and making statements that border on pure fabrication of the facts. The main instigators of those disgraceful events are still members of the current MBA management.
Finally the 20th anniversary of the McKinnon Basketball Association that was announced this year was total fabrication. The Association was formed in 1995. I know this as I was former executive member of the MBA. Since stepping down a number of years ago it has been totally disheartening to witness the behaviour of the current MBA management as they and their supporters have continually distorted the truth and facts about the Warriors and most disappointingly have mounted a vicious and nasty vilification campaign that still continues against their founding member Bob Mann.
The FACT is that Association wouldn’t even have existed without his tireless work over the past 20 years. The MBA management’s treatment of him and the Warriors since 2009 has been nothing short of disgraceful. It seems Cr Magee has bought into it all hook line and sinker.
Personally I wish Bob and the Warriors all the success in the world at GESAC, they thoroughly deserve it.
January 11, 2012 at 3:44 PM
You speak so proudly of this club and the people behind it, let them know who you are and don’t hide behind this virtual world. The people you accuse of getting their facts wrong, are open about who they are and are prepared to take criticism on board…I even know of families that received threats from members of this amazing club. Grow up and stop hiding behind the screen.
January 11, 2012 at 4:57 PM
I assume Adrienne you are talking about Anon 9. He or she has made some interesting points and I hardly think by reading through them that they are proclaiming the Warriors. They instead to me are stating some facts more about McKinnon’s history so i think you are a bit off the mark with your inference. Are any of the facts stated incorrect, do you know?
As far as making themselves know, why would they? This is a forum, yet you have come out and made some claim about threatening behaviour, do you have proof of this or is it simply heresay posted on a blog under an alias?
Usually when a poster on a blog starts demanding the identity of a poster as you have, that poster has made a post pretty close to the mark.
You would have more credibility if you asked for each posters identity or indeed provided that of your own considering you have included a fairly serious accusation in the post. Even then that goes against what Blogs are all about.
Blogs are places people can place opinions free from pressure so information can be shared, hence why anonoymous post are made on millions of blogs worldwide. If they wish to identify themselves they can do so.
From my perspective I appreciate some of the points Anon 9 has raised, it is very interesting and makes for some enlightening reading. I will be interested to see if anybody can genuinely refute them or they are indeed accurate.
January 11, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Cr Pilling supported the “Crown Land Exchange” for a fraction of the true value and the acceptance of a so called park at the Booran Road intersection of Glen Eira Road. Strangely the police and Glen Eira Council have published material stating how unsuitable the land being offered if for a public park area!!!!!
Cr Pilling also supported the development in the central area which give the residents about 15% of the total area and the same deal gives the MRC more than double our area and of course the right to close the gates nearly all day when it is suitable to the MRC not residents of Glen Eira. We only mmost of their water for their dams, now lakes, another land grab the parking area for their intended 10,000 visitors daily. Any observer would call their “Gift” as a mere PIP of the Racecourse reserve whichis said to be for recreation and sport too.
Another planned hidden grab is the seizure with the yellow brick road of a pathway said to break our bodies down which id really for cars to park in the inner area too. Why build a concrete path for use only 15 days per year?
Councillor Pilling supported this when he was one of the BIG 4 !!!!!!
January 11, 2012 at 7:59 PM
The land near the Booran Rd round-about, will be 1000 times more usable to residents, than the triangle it was swapped for, which I gather was Crown Land and never council owned land anyway. It already looks better, opening a small treed vista that was not there before.
So were does the true value lay, in the monetary value that could never be realized, or in the practical usage as open space. I think we got a sensible outcome in that swap, the residents will get value from the piece of land.
I might add that the whole of the racecourse reserve is still and always was [excepting the leased areas] open for public use any time between dusk and dawn excluding racing days and training events etc.
January 12, 2012 at 3:48 AM
Please explain why many of the gates are locked very often????? We are never permitted to be in reserve between dusk and dawn… the reserve is used by over five hundred horses between 4.00 am and 9.30 am every day and we are not permitted entry. AMAZINGLY THIS IS A COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE CALLED HORSE TRAINNING AND THE MRC DOES NOT PAY TO USE THIS LAND GRANTED TO US FOR A PARK!!!!!1