When will the sheer, unadulterated arrogance of Lipshutz cease? When will the level of argument in this council rise above the facile and puerile? When will logic and fact, replace hyperbole? When will residents finally listen to debates that are worthy of that name? When will the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth actually be stated? These questions arise out of the ‘debate’ on the Significant Tree Register. Please read carefully and make up your own mind whether many of these individuals are worthy of their soon to be voted in pay packets that will cost ratepayers approximately $340,000 per annum!
Pilling moved the motion: “That Council proceed to introduce a classified tree register where there is a Local Law requiring a Permit but only for those high quality trees which Council has included in the register”. Delahunty seconded.
PILLING: Stated that Glen Eira ‘doesn’t have tree protection on private property’. He thought the motion was ‘appropriate’ and that it was a ‘fairly moderate scheme’ and that it would probably effect only 100s of trees rather ‘than thousands’. Said that the other option available was to ‘introduce a local law’ that’s ‘governed by the size’ of the tree which would ‘catch a lot’ of trees. The ‘previous council’ agreed upon ‘a moderate start’ and that the local laws committee had already done some of the work and he would ‘like to see that work continue’ and that council introduce the register to ‘protect significant trees’. ‘It’s a step in the right direction’ and that there are ‘different views around the table’ but that council does ‘regulate’ things on private property such as fences and that he sees ‘significant trees in the same way’. He thought that ‘most people do look after their trees’ but ‘this will stop the unnecessary removal’ of trees and ‘goes some way to achieve that’….it’s a short step, it’s a modest step’
DELAHUNTY: agreed that it’s a ‘moderate’ step and probably ‘a little too moderate for my mind’. Said that regardless of what her values might be ‘it’s in the community plan’ and for the community is ‘clearly important’ and ‘this is what we’ve been elected to do’….’I’ll be gutted if we can’t introduce’ the register and the city will stand in clear contrast ‘to some of our neighbours’ if we can’t ‘protect some of our most beautiful trees’.
OKOTEL: talked about the expense of this and trees on private property that can’t be removed. There will be ‘ongoing costs…..increased red tape’ and ‘continuous discussion’ about what is or is not a significant tree. She thought that residents ‘are more than sensible enough to know’ what’s a good tree and ‘what’s appropriate to maintain’ and ‘to make those decisions for themselves’.
ESAKOFF: didn’t support ‘tree protection’ and that people in general ‘do appreciate the value of trees’ and that people don’t remove trees ‘without good reason’ ( such as property damage, or dangerous). Thought that people ‘should have the right of choice’ over their own property and shouldn’t have to pay to get a permit to prune, or ‘being forced’ to hire an arborist to ‘report on whether they should be allowed to prune’. Accepted that there are a ‘range of views’ and that some people would feel that ‘they are over-governed’ and to introduce a tree register ‘will only cement that view’. Existing mechanisms include town planning, so that if there is a significant tree then town planning conditions are ‘put in place to protect them’. There are also ‘large penalties’ for ‘breach of those conditions’. Other safeguards are landscape plans, 4 metre setbacks and open space requirements which means that more trees can be planted. ‘There are enough hoops to jump through’ without adding to them.
MAGEE: said that a property in Mckinnon was sold but before it sold 2 lovely jacaranda trees went. Developer then had ‘no problems’ in applying for a permit. Believed that he should decide what trees are on ‘my block’. This will ‘only cover 1% trees in Glen Eira’. Trusted council’s arborist to say what’s a ‘significant tree’ or not. Said he’s ‘got a problem’ with cutting down trees ‘in suburban streets’ just for the sake of ‘cutting them down’. ‘We have to start somewhere. This is a moderate approach’. There are beautiful trees in East Bentleigh. One was a redgum in the school and it was removed because it provided ‘too much shade’ and he would ‘hate to think’ that this can happen because someone thought that a tree had ‘too much shade’. Something is needed to ‘protect significant trees like that’. ’We should have some say in what happens to the amenity of our suburbs’.
SOUNNESS: Glen Eira is ‘lush’ and not ‘concrete city’. Should start ‘negotiations’ with private property owners if they have significant trees. It won’t be simply ‘ah this is 2 metres’ it’s got to be significant. Said he wasn’t a ‘tree expert’ but ‘trusts people who are’ and then can be considered if ‘those things’ are worthy of putting onto a tree register. It won’t stop trees being cut down but the ‘start’ of a discussion. So he supports a tree register.
LIPSHUTZ: said this has been up to council a ‘number of times’ and council has changed its mind a few times. Doesn’t support a tree register for the reasons basically outlined by Esakoff. Said that his worry is that ‘I don’t trust the arborist’…’I don’t trust the people who make the heritage decisions’. He sees heritage advisors saying it’s heritage but ‘I see nothing heritage about it’….’it’s in the eyes of the beholder’ since there’s ‘no scientific way of saying this is heritage or this is a significant tree’. Said that laws exist. Reflected on his personal trees but ‘over the last 20 years’ they’ve gone because they were ‘ordinary specimens and they’ve been replaced’, Now he’s got ‘nicer’ and ‘better trees’….It was my choice to do that’. Doesn’t want people telling him ‘this is the way to do it’. Local laws committee has ‘investigated’ this and ‘gone a fair way down the track’. In the end it’s about ‘making a decision on your tree’. Didn’t believe it’s ‘our’ role to ‘implement this law which infringes on our rights’.
HYAMS: no ‘right or wrong’, 2 solid arguments and where to ‘draw the line’. 1st argument is that people should have the right over their own property and ‘if you took that to the absolute limit’ then no one would ever need ‘a planning application’. Second argument is ‘desire to preserve amenity’. Take this to the ‘absolute degree’ and you’d ‘never allow anyone to change anything’. Most people are in the middle. The issue has a ‘long history’ and it’s being considered again because there is a ‘new council’ and they wanted to ‘ascertain’ that there was ‘council support’ ‘before we do any further work on it’. Said that they’d looked ‘at various ways of doing this’ such as planning scheme amendments. That wasn’t feasible because it would mean that putting in a tree ‘would take forever to do it’ and if a tree was ‘dangerous’ it would involve a very ‘cumbersome process’ to get rid of it. Other councils have measures (ie diameter, height) but ‘just because a tree is big doesn’t mean’ it’s good. Claimed they looked at other councils and it just involved a lot more ‘red tape’ to get permission to cut down a tree. Last council decided upon a tree register which provides a ‘degree of flexibility’ because dangerous trees or trees that damaged property could be ‘removed ‘fairly quickly’. Said this was similar to heritage & planning applications which council opposes because it will have ‘an undue impact’ so this is a ‘small step’ in ‘preserving what is good about our neighbourhoods’. He thought it would ‘be far fewer than 1% of trees’ and that the goal is to protect the ‘absolutely outstanding trees’ that ‘anyone would be devastated to see cut down’. When comparing amenity and people’s rights then ‘the way to go’ is for ‘limited tree protection’
PILLING: Hyams is right because it’s about ‘striking the right balance’ and will ‘make an improvement’ to the city. Mentioned the c87 and minister’s approval and thought ‘that’s a good thing’ and this is ‘a good thing for the community’. It’s the ‘right balance’ between ‘going too far one way’
MOTION PUT AND CARRIED – VOTING FOR: Pilling, Hyams, Sounness, Delahunty, Magee, Lobo
VOTING AGAINST: Lipshutz, Esakoff, Okotel
COMMENT: And so ends the saga of ‘significant trees’. At least ten years in the making and probably another two years before the compilation of any miniscule register is completed. We wish to point out:
- No real mention of ‘moonscaping’ in this discussion – developers suddenly do not exist
- No statements on who will decide what goes on the register and what the criteria will be. For example: will residents be provided with the opportunity to nominate trees – either their own or others? Will councillors? Or will it all be left in the hands of officers and their paid for ‘consultants’?
- What of ‘objection rights’ by residents? Or will council ensure that the butchers come in the dead of night and ‘poof’ the tree is gone – aka Packer Park?
- What’s the policy (versus practice!) on notification?
- What processes of ‘verification’ will be in place? Will arborist’s reports be made public especially since everything is ‘in the eye of the beholder’ according to Lipshutz
- Will this be cemented into the Local Law for the next 10 years and not ever reviewed in the meantime?
- Why can other councils hold forums, public consultations, provide discussion papers on this important issue, and in Glen Eira residents don’t receive any opportunity to comment – apart from the sham call for submissions when the Local Law must be advertised?
- Why are the stated objectives of the Community Plan nothing more than empty words on paper that amount to nothing?
PS: Following an email from an alert reader we’ve done a little more digging and discovered the following resolution dating from the 27th April, 2011 –
“Crs Pilling/Tang
That Council:
1. Creates a classified tree register based on identification of trees which meet the criteria in attachment 1, and
2. Drafts a Local Law to give effect to management and protection of trees listed on the classified tree register.
The MOTION was put and CARRIED. ‘
Further, the minutes of this meeting include a draft ‘tree selection criteria’ (uploaded here) of which one reads: “outstanding size”. Perhaps Cr. Hyams needs to refresh his memory given his remarks re size?
Hence, we interpret the latest resolution that passed as a complete watering down of the 2011 resolution. We must also question the governance issues that surround this. For example:
- Should the 2011 resolution have been formally rescinded first – especially since it is not within a bull’s roar of the current resolution? (of course, Glen Eira Meeting Procedures do not have such a clause! – how convenient!)
- Why wasn’t there any ‘selection criteria’ included in this last meeting?
We will cease and desist for now, since the questions are numerous; answers non-existent, and due process and good governance totally lacking.
February 10, 2013 at 4:30 PM
Lobo has got a competitor for the most stupid councillor ever to sit on council. Difference is that Lipshutz’s arrogance makes him totally stupid which isn’t necessarily the case for Lobo.
February 10, 2013 at 6:21 PM
Lipshutz doesn’t trust arborists or heritage advisors. Someone should tell him that there are a lot of people out in the community who have zero trust in him. How’s the frisbee games going Michael. Is your son still playing? What about your mate who handed out your how to vote cards and then became the applicant for a property that you supported to the hilt? They still around? The best bit is his statement about not wanting to have laws that impinge on our rights. There’s the right to have notices of motion and speak at a council meeting which he’s denied people. What a hypocrite and bullshit artist.
February 10, 2013 at 7:06 PM
I wouldn’t call the comments allegedly made by Lipshutz as arrogant. I see them as contemptuous. They display an utter contempt for the gallery and residents in general plus other councillors. I wouldn’t think that it’s coincidence that Sounness and Magee both claimed the opposite – namely, that they trust the expertise of qualified arborists. Lipshutz is entitled to his opinion but not to so condescendingly portray himself as the paragon of all knowledge. In doing so he merely displays his staggering ignorance.
If science is the sole measure against which events and situations are to be judged then that holy of holies,the law, falls far short of being “scientifically based”. It is nothing more than opinion on top of opinion (however erudite). There is nothing “scientific” about the law. But residents have the bogus claims of council being a “quasi-judicial” organ thrust down their throats just about every council meeting according to this blog. The law is about as “scientific” as the views of Ron Hubbard and others of that ilk. This type of argument needs to be seen for what it is – the refuge of those with little understanding, no concern for the municipality, no courage, and huge inflated egos that are abhorrent.
February 10, 2013 at 7:21 PM
Ain’t it amazing that recent election promises to serve the community and represent the residents falls by the wayside for Hyams and Lipshutz – once re-elected it’s their own personal views (when they don’t coincide with the residents views) that are paramount and are to be shoved onto the residents.
Good on newbie Cr. Delahunty for pointing this out – just a shame it will fall on deaf ears.
February 10, 2013 at 8:27 PM
You really have to wonder about the Lipshutz thought processes.
Within a very short period he accepts, without a murmur, a Glen Huntly Road traffic report based on anecdotal evidence then lampoons tree and/or heritage classifications as not being worthy of trust because they are not based on quantifiable evidence. Both reports were prepared, or were based on information prepared, by trained and accredited professionals in their respective fields. My vote for the report most lacking in credibility isn’t related to trees as it isn’t the report lacking quantifiable evidence when quantifiable evidence was able to be collected.
February 11, 2013 at 11:31 AM
Speaking of unquantified evidence, you forgot to mention the traffic report also slashed the on site visitor (from 11 to 5) and retail (from 14 to 4) car parking requirements because visitors and shoppers will use public transport – where’s the evidence supporting this assertion?
As per the above comment, Lipshutz accepted it without a murmur
February 10, 2013 at 11:46 PM
Okotel is meeting expectations as Esakoff’s stooge 99% of the time. She’s definitely been prepped since she’s singing from the same song sheet as Lipshutz and Esakoff. When councillors allow a park tree to disappear overnight their evidence is an arborist’s report. Now we hear that these folks aren’t to be trusted and that their reports are suspect . Better not to have anything is the logic behind this specious argument. My only wish is that these same councillors were as skeptical of planners’ reports as they seem to be of arborist and heritage experts recommendations.
February 10, 2013 at 11:55 PM
Here’s a shock from someone whose politics are more left than right.
I should be able to cultivate or remove whatever tree I want on my property. Council should butt out
February 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM
How’s it all going to work if houses can disappear overnight withoiut a demo permit.
IS THE TREE REGISTER TO BE DISPLAYED IN A PUBLIC AREA?
Are the neighbours going to be told they live in a preserved tree area. What do they do at modnight when the chain saws ring?
Is size the criteria or what features for a tree of significance?
How come a beautiful tree disappeared like lightning in Princes Park?
February 11, 2013 at 10:54 AM
How come Cr Esakoff talks about 4 metre setbacks and trees when her power broking councillors always diminish this measly setack at every opportunity if the developer friends need the space. What measures can possibly be put in place to ensure that vegetatrion is kept alive to screen the ugly box like buildings with meter decorations on the street which this council is approving with great rapidity.
Maybe they could offer a reward for the most ugly building?
There would be too many to award a prize these days.
February 11, 2013 at 11:38 AM
What a shame a political satirist wasn’t in the gallery. If one had attended, I’m sure tears of joy would have filled their eyes as they witnessed the satirical material being served up by Lipshutz and Hyams.
February 11, 2013 at 4:25 PM
Cr. Esakoff is too old for the job. (MODERATORS: sentence deleted)
February 12, 2013 at 2:44 PM
Large old trees in rapid global decline
http://news.anu.edu.au/2012/12/07/large-old-trees-in-rapid-global-decline/
I see big old tree dying all over Melbourne, the dead and decaying skeleton branch ends, heralding there long decline from life to death. Two decades of drought though climate change has seen to that. Where will we be in another 2 decades of global warming.
There are great dangers here for humans, we need whats disappearing, and we have passed the point of fixing the problems.
Nothing our council will do will change whats really happening in the real world, but it is comforting to see some trying.