Club goes to referee
Basketballers lodge complaint with Ombudsman over tender process…..
Jenny Ling
THE Oakleigh Warriors basketball club has lodged a complaint with the Victorian Ombudsman over Glen Eira Council’s tender process for its new sports and aquatic centre.
In May the council awarded the Warriors use of the $41.2 million Glen Eira sports and aquatic centre basketball courts for competitions and programs on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.
A month later councillors voted to seek legal advice about the agreement after protests from rival players the Mckinnnon Basketball Association.
Warriors president Geoff Charnley said a letter was lodged last week asking George Brouwer to ‘‘uphold the original decision to award the playing rights to our club and investigate the reason as to why there was an attempt to overturn it’’. ‘‘We think there has been some inappropriate intervention on an open process — that’s disappointing,’’ Mr Charnley said.
‘‘We went through an open, transparent process. ‘‘They made us an offer and we were delighted to receive it.’’ At the June 28 council meeting, McKinnon club members presented a 713-signature petition asking councillors to reconsider the decision.
In a statement, Mayor Margaret Esakoff said: ‘‘Up till now this matter has been handled by officers as it has been regarded as an allocation and all seasonal allocations for sports facilities are operational matters and as such handled by recreation officers…however, councillors are now considering this matter.’’
************
Warriors welcome players at club’s new home
NO basketball players will be excluded from competitions at the Glen Eira sports and aquatic centre, the Oakleigh Warriors team has promised.
Warriors secretary John Wilson said while he understood the McKinnon Basketball Association was disappointed their expression of interest was turned down by Glen Eira Council, ‘‘we’re quite happy to accept teams from McKinnon’’.
Mr Wilson said the Warriors, whose name changed to Glen Eira Warriors Basketball Club last month, had received a letter of offer from the council that had been accepted. ‘‘It was a fair and transparent process,’’ Mr Wilson said.
Glen Eira Debates 
July 12, 2011 at 10:29 AM
Esakoff is a pathetic, useless Mayor. She can accept no responsibility. The allocation of sports facilities is handled by Officers on an impartial basis.Councillors set Policy which is what occured until McKinnon Basketball as usual applied the Bob Mann embarrasment trick which has been applied before and not just to our Council.I think it is fantastic that the Ombudsman has been called in ,and in my opinion this useless Council should save the State an investigation and just quit.
July 12, 2011 at 2:31 PM
Certainly nothing to do with personalities. It could of been any group that doesn’t have an intrinsic right to use GESAC and the feeling would be the same. If Warriors can really afford to occupy 3 courts for 52 weekends of the year as promised, go ahead. Our teams will not be able to afford the cost!….just look at your Kids First and Hot Shots programs. Up from $70 to $100 for next term.
The main argument has and will be the Warriors, as an outside Glen Eira organisation were prepared to pay more per hour for the courts…..so it has come down purely to money.
Hopefully that charge is from day 1.
July 12, 2011 at 10:34 AM
3 Municipal Inspections and now the Ombudsman! Everything but everything about this council has to do with governance, because this is really what this whole GESAC tendering process is all about. My reading of the situation is that the rats are jumping off as quickly as they can from the sinking ship. Esakoff’s statement is a blatant attempt to distance herself and councillors from Burke and the Recreation Department. Come off it! If there was a correct tender process then this should have gone to council for approval before any offers were made. Did it? Or did Burke and the Recreation committee, not to mention the Pools Steering Committee (which include Esakoff, Lipshutz, Hyams, Maggee, Tang) wash their hands of everything and just let Burke carry on in his own autocratic way? If they didn’t know what the hell was going on, then it was their job to know! It’s much too late now to cry oh please we left it to the officers because that’s their job. Christ, when you’re dealing with a 45 million dollar investment then it’s got to be done properly with correct oversight and planning. Leaving everything to the Burke’s of this world should never have been on the cards. He can stuff up time and time again but councillors have got to realise that it’s their necks on the line each time. They are meant to sign off and they as a Council are legally responsible – not the Newtons and Burkes. These blokes get off scot free each time.
There’s also the other possibility of course that countless other groups will now also seek help from the ombudsman. Gosh, Brouwer is going to have a full time job just keeping up to speed with all the complaints about Glen Eira. Poor bugger!
It’s time for a total cleanout. Councillors have shown that they can’t manage the bureaucracy and bureaucrats have shown that they have no idea about business, planning and undoubtedly proper planning. And it’s us, the poor suckers who are ending up paying the costs for lawyers galore.
July 12, 2011 at 12:37 PM
Anonymous makes some very pertinent observations I think. It’s no use attempting to shift the blame at this late stage. Ratepayers could be up for thousands of dollars not only in legal fees, but also compensation if the Warriors decide to take the matter further. I know nothing about either club, but I would have thought that if policy had been clearly established right at the start, then none of this needed to happen. Priorities needed to be set (ie either the highest bidder, or go for locals); tenders needed to be vetted by councillors according to these priiorities, and full discussion and disclosure taking place once all the tenders were in. But this council has always worked in secret and this is the result. One should really question the Pools Steering Committee and in particular Lipshutz. There are many, many questions which need to be dragged out into the sunlight instead of buried. We’ve been shown once more that managing major business ventures is not the forte of this council and that it is ratepayers who always end up paying the price for such incompetence.
July 12, 2011 at 10:18 PM
The alleged statement by Esakoff is highly suspect. In the first place the issue is not about allocations since it involved tenders, agreements, and one presumes contracts. Each of these components is about more than simple “allocations”. Perhaps the McKinnon Basketball Association members can tell us:
1. Whether they had to pay for the tender documents?
2. Whether there were specific criteria outlined in these documents?
3. What kind of ‘business plan’ was put together?
4. What reasons were they given for their failure to attract the contract?
If any of the above occurred, then the issue is not allocations as alleged by Esakoff, but about the use of delegatory powers and councillors’ vigilance in the supervision of such powers.
July 12, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Sorry, I didn’t mean to label the papers as “tenders” but rather “expressions of interest”. I also forgot to point out that the incamera decision of last council meeting queried whether or not the Warriors “offer” was a “legally binding agreement” and other language used was “contract”.
July 14, 2011 at 9:58 PM
Anonymous (and everyone else for that matter), I think you should search for and read “Glen Eira REPORT OF INVESTIGATION INTO.pdf”. This is a report prepared by Merv Whelan (Inspector of Municipal Administration), July 2005. Basically Councilors set policy and Council employees manage that policy. Period! Councilors are treading on soft ground when they start trying to alter outcomes after a process has been adhered to, just because someone complains. This doesn’t sound like good and transparent governance to me. Check the Local Government Act. In my opinion several councilors have breached more than one clause up to this point. If they continue, they may breach more..
This report speaks glowingly of Mssrs Newton & Burke who have to work in ‘trying’ employment conditions. It also says Newton’s team do a good job and that Glen Eira is financially strong.
Are you saying, that Councilors have to give the final last approval for every decision and contract entered into by council?? That is ridiculous and would be totally unworkable. If that is the case then why have council officers? Just employ the Councilors full time. There would, no doubt, be clear and concise guidelines as to what council officers can & can’t do or approve. Along with procedures for Tenders, Expression of Interests and the award of Contracts or Hire agreements.
As for who is paying for GESAC? – Glen Eira residents are NOT the only ones paying for GESAC. Funding for the project is made up of $10 Million in Commonwealth Funding and a State government grant of $2.5Million. This leaves approximately $24Million to be paid for by Glen Eira Council. One prudent and sensible way is to ensure that GESAC “pays its way” so it is not a financial burden on Glen Eira Ratepayers. Would some of the people on this blog (and others) rather the award of court hire be awarded to a lower bidder, which would mean Glen Eira Council (read ratepayers) would have to pick up the tab? If that is the suggestion of some, then you are ill equipped to advise on financial viability.
How about the many residents within Glen Eira that don’t even give a damn about GESAC, will never use any of it’s facilities and don’t want to pay any more than they have to? Is it fair on them to have to pick up the tab for a lower bidder? I think not!
Also, check out the GESAC budget, A lower bidder will leave a hole in the budget, who fills that?
July 14, 2011 at 10:42 PM
A man’s reach should never exceed his grasp. In this case both Newton and Burke have really overshot themselves. Policy is set by councillors. In this case who knows if these councillors even know what that policy is. Just remember that when you’re talking about contracts over a certain amount that “yes” they do have to go through council – which means councillors. You also make it sound like 24 million dollars is a drop in the ocean. It’s not! and especially not when Glen Eira residents will be paying off the vain glory of both Newton and Burke and Lipshutz and Tang and Esakoff for decades to come. You can whinge and gripe all you like about gesac and that it should be paying for itself. Most people would think that gesac’s first responsibiility is to its residents. And don’t give me that guff about your name. Glen Eira Warriors sure sounds a lot better than Oakleigh Warriors. But a Johnny come lately name change can’t change the fact that in the minds of residents Oakleigh Warriors will always be Oakleigh Warriors.
July 16, 2011 at 12:41 AM
“financial viability” does not equate to highest profit and is not merely accepting the highest bid.
What due diligence was carried out to ensure Oakleigh Warriors can deliver on their bid?
I wouldn’t want to see Oakleigh Warriors fail financially and leave GESAC to chase them for payment of the contract.
Even if the OW can afford payment, are the benefits in line with cost?
I would rather see more benefit at a lower profit than higher profit with fewer beneficiaries and higher exclusivity.
I am a Glean Eira rate payer and have an interest in GESAC being utilised by local community groups.
With respect to the State and Commonwelath contributions, it was stated in open Council meetings that these were gained using support of local resident group partitions. Local groups organised this support with the intent it would support local community activities.
To use local residents support to gain funding only to shop it out to other communities reeks; Had I known it was not going to be used by local community, I would have likely not given my support. Whilst it may have been unintentional, I’d say there has been a mis-representation here.
“good and transparent governance” is highly desirable.
Fair dealings are too.
Dont dip into my pocket for community projects and ask me to support something for the benefit of my community, then hand it over to someone else!
July 12, 2011 at 10:47 AM
When ya sign ya life away thru delegations ya can’t then turn around and cry oh woe is me. When ya stick Lipshits on every important committee then it will come back to bite yas in the bum. If yas also include Hyams, Tang and Esakoff then ya know you’re on a hiding to nuthin. Yas can’t be in the pocket of Newton and run a council.
July 12, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Another gigantic balls up by the sounds of it. Maybe the Swim4all should also apply to VCAT under discrimination laws. That would cover the entire gamut of investigators on the tail of this council.
July 12, 2011 at 12:03 PM
I hope Warriors have some grand plans for a broader range of programs if they intend to include EVERYONE!
July 14, 2011 at 10:48 PM
Adrienne, I’m sure everyone will be welcome.
Unlike MBA who wrote to Garden Sate Warriors (GSW) and said I quote
“In the meantime the Executive also exercises its right under clause 2.6 of the constitution not to accept any GSW teams to its domestic competition, as you will be aware this decision is final and binding. Needless to say this also includes your access to training space which has now been reallocated to other clubs.”
Perhaps the Council should investigate this??
But, if you haven’t worked it out, Basketball everywhere is run as a business. Unfortunately there are no sugar daddies and unfortunately we live in a user pays society.
July 12, 2011 at 12:10 PM
Can anyone tell what colours the Warriors wear?
July 12, 2011 at 12:31 PM
Anon 2 you are a fool and this will be proven beyond doubt when the ombudsman reports that the Administration has acted properly and the Council has acted improperly. Councillors has 3 Lawyers and yet these amateurs do not know what constitutes a contract. Are they going to break a contract costing us thousands of dollars or are they bullying a kids club into submission. This Council is disgusting and a huge embarrassment.
July 12, 2011 at 1:23 PM
People are “fools” when they ignore the truth and the mountains of evidence that has been accumulating ever since Newton took over. If there is to be any finger pointing about tenders and failure then it should be equally jabbed at the directors and councillors. Using your language all are “disgusting and a huge embarrassment”
July 14, 2011 at 10:03 PM
Anon, read my post above re the “Glen Eira REPORT OF INVESTIGATION INTO.pdf” and read the report!
According to this report Newton is beyond reproach and his officers and he are probably the only ones acting with integrity.
Unlike the lies propogated by some in the MBA and Magee for believing them. Just remember there are always 2 sides to a story.
July 12, 2011 at 4:24 PM
How disappointing that the only time Esakoff has any comment to make is to try and excuse hers and the officers shortcomings. When all of these people fail to utter a single word about the C60 and the racecourse then there is something drastically wrong. There has not been any public comment from anyone and certainly no media releases. This bunker mentality belongs to the past. They cannot hide forever and nor can they expect that the public will forget. Hence, to come out now with this lame excuse about “allocations” is exactly the kind of ruse that we were subjected to when the kids in the park fiasco was all put down to a rangers’ over zealousness. The argument simply doesn’t wash anymore. Public statements should embrace all issues and those responsible should be prepared to admit the error of their ways. I don’t want to be paying for something that I know nothing about and it’s all conducted behind closed doors with the select few and the manipulation of various officers.
July 12, 2011 at 8:56 PM
Pretty obvious that anyone banging on about C60 lives near the race track and thinks that their property will be worth less now that it is approved. They call it “vested interest”.
July 12, 2011 at 10:04 PM
Total nonsense! The point being made is that the c60 is without a doubt the biggest planning issue to hit Glen Eira. But has any councillor given a peep about it? No way – it’s heads down and let’s hope the flack bypasses us. Well it won’t. Residents will definitely remember the gang of four and their voting on this and you don’t have to live near the racecourse to be pissed off.
July 13, 2011 at 12:06 AM
Annonymous, you obviously don’t live near the planned race track development or you would not make such insulting remarks. Many families place more importance on their quality of life and how this development will be detrimental to that – not the monetary value. Sounds to me you might have a “vested interest”.
July 12, 2011 at 5:26 PM
from the online Leader –
I am one of many Glen Eira residents who have children playing with the Warriors both at domestic and representative level. I have also been involved with the tender process in another field of work and find it incredible that a tender result can be challenged. A tender is a fair and transparent process where the best applicant is successful. It is not an auction where under bidders have the ability to place further bids over a period of time.
The Warriors shouldn’t be penalised because they are a smaller club. If all the required boxes in the tender application were ticked and The Warriors were the successful applicant, what is there to challenge?
Shanan Jarvis writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 12:46pm
I think that the Glen Eira Council has every right to listen to their residents concerns to ensure that the GESAC facility is run by a professional group. The last thing Glen Eira Council and residents would want is to have someone go in promising a well run basketball programme and then within 12 months having to bail out that Association when things are not as financial or supported as promised.
David Meredith writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 11:44am
The Councillors of Glen Eira have taken this step as a result of an incorrect decision made by council officers. The original decision to grant use of GESAC to Oakleigh Warriors has major problems: – GESAC should be first and foremost a service to the residents of Glen Eira – given they are paying for the facility. Oakleigh Warriors are based outside the Glen Eira Municipality. – Financial Viability. Oakliegh Warriors have only 7 teams, a poor financial base and management with a poor track record.
On the other hand, the McKinnon Basketball Association (MBA) has over 200 teams and 1400 players from within Glen Eira Municipality. The MBA has been running for 20 years and continues to grow in response to the increase in interest in Basketball and the management effectiveness of the MBA.
Councillors are there as a final “check and balance” of council decisions and to safeguard the interests of the community they represent. Clearly in this case, this check and balance has done its job. Well done to the Council
July 14, 2011 at 10:06 PM
David Meredith, your comments are nothing more than your opinion. They are in no way based upon any facts whatsoever. GESAC will be a service to Glen Eira residents. Check with council officers as to the successful bidder’s strategy for the centre. If you are suggesting otherwise you are denigrating the impartiality and judgement of Glen Eira’s council officers.
Your assertion that Glen Eira residents are the only ones paying for GESAC is factually incorrect. Funding for the project is made up of $10 Million in Commonwealth Funding and a State government grant of $2.5Mil. This leaves approximately $24Million to be paid for by Glen Eira Council. One prudent and sensible way is to ensure that GESAC “pays its way” so it is not a financial burden on Glen Eira Ratepayers. Would you rather the award of court hire be awarded to a lower bidder, which would mean Glen Eira Council (read ratepayers) would have to pick up the tab? If that is your suggestion, then you are ill equipped to advise on financial viability.
Not sure why you mention Oakleigh Warriors? Again, check your facts with council officers!! The Expression of Interest for use of the courts at GESAC was won by Glen Eira Basketball Club (formerly Garden State Warriors), a club that has an extensive 15-16 year association with basketball in the Glen Eira area, proudly providing basketball opportunities to many Glen Eira residents in that time.
I am glad you speak so highly of the McKinnon Basketball Association’s (MBA) management effectiveness. That, then, speaks glowingly of Bob Mann, MBA founder, President & General Manager for 13 years, LIFE MEMBER of the MBA and recipient of a Basketball Victoria 15 year distinguished service award. A person that was able to set the MBA on its way and is now the helping Glen Eira Basketball club. That should put Glen Eira Council’sl minds at ease, knowing such an esteemed basketball identity is helping the Glen Eira Basketball club.
So you are saying only teams from within Glen Eira’s boundaries should be eligible to play at GESAC? If so, how ridiculous. Are there no teams or players, currently playing in the MBA (domestic or Represenative) that are from outside Glen Eira’s boundaries? Is that a fact or, again, is it your opinion?? If so is the MBA the sole domain of teams/players from within Glen Eira’s boundaries? Again, is this fact or your opinion? If so, what about Brighton Wolves, St Finbar Scalpers and the many MBA Representaive players that reside outside Glen Eira?
David, in future please be factual and disclose fully when adding comments!
July 12, 2011 at 5:35 PM
Hello Gleneira,
Could you tell me what the team colours of the warriors are.
July 12, 2011 at 5:47 PM
Dear Glennie,
the newly named Glen Eira Warriors website is: http://www.warriorsbasketball.org/
Judging by the photographs on these pages, we assume that their colours are blue and gold.
July 16, 2011 at 1:19 AM
Is that (http://www.warriorsbasketball.org/) the official Warriors site???
Hey VIv,
if you are trying to suggest the name is not Oakleigh Warriors, but “Glen Eira Basketball Club (formerly Garden State Warriors)” you might want to have your web developers remove all reference to your other name, “oakleighwarriors” as can be seen in http://www.warriorsbasketball.org/
That said, I do have to do more reading to ascertain all the _facts_ about this issue; you’re right, there are two sides to a story and both seem to be bending the truth.
July 16, 2011 at 2:06 AM
“Oakleigh Warriors” is all through the http://www.warriorsbasketball.org/ web site. There appears to be an identity problem there.
Viv, “financial viability” is more than simply accepting the highest bid.
What due diligence went into ensuring the Warriors can fulfil their bid?
Even if the Warriors can afford it, I’d prefer to see more benefit at lower profit than less benefit at higher profit and exclusivity.
In terms of funding, Glen Eira residents are paying the lion share; wrt Commonwealth and State Government grants, it was stated in an open Council meeting that these were obtained with the use of local resident / organisations partitions.
I would not give my support to use community funds, land, infrastructure to primarily service other communities.
It is borderline misrepresentation to ask for funds for facilities to benefit a specitic community and then to hand it over to another.
I am in no way suggesting GESAC should be reserved exclusively for Glen Eira residents, but it should be primarily to service their interests.
Visitors and guest most welcome (as the away team).
Regarding tender process: gleneira, from the online Leader – “best applicant is successful. It is not an auction…”
I have sat through tender processes and the “best applicant” is seldom the highest or lowest dollar value. In some situations, the highest and lowest are discarded as out-liers. The best applicant is determined based on your organisational objectives. In the case of the Council and the GESAC, one of the main objectives should be to serve the Glen Eira community.I’d be surprised if this is not emblazoned all over Glen Eira council. I would hope that financially responsible is another; not confusing financial responsibility with profit hunting.
In the end I just hope all the players and the community enjoy the facilities and are not adversely impacted by the political / commercial mechanations leading up to their use.
July 12, 2011 at 5:42 PM
newton, burke, esakoff, hyams, tang, lipshutz should resign immediately. any legal fees should come out of their pockets.
July 12, 2011 at 5:49 PM
I notice Cr Lipshutze is referenced as Lipshits – by Smart Aleck. I think the moderator should correct this, or remove it. It’s not necessary, and lowers the tone of the debate. I don’t have much love of the man personally, I criticise his balance to separate himself from his Zionist allegiance and make decision that are good for all the community. I would never denigrate his family name.
July 14, 2011 at 10:49 PM
I agree
July 12, 2011 at 6:00 PM
Clearly it would be unreasonable to expect Councillors to be involved in all aspects of operations of the City of Glen Eira. In order for these operations to run effectively and efficiently it is essential that Councillor’s agree to delegate authority to act to Council administrative officers or select committees. However, since only authority, and not responsibility, can be delegated, it is imperative that such delegations are soundly worded with the duties/obligations and reporting requirements clearly spelt out. Councillor’s responsibility to rate payers is monitor the performance of administrative officers/committees and to openly ask questions when viewing the reports/recommendations of officers or select committees. Additionally, it is expected that major issues such as $50+m GESAC and allocations, would warrant more open discussions than a one day change to waste pickup for two small areas within Glen Eira.
Can anyone point to a discussion on GESAC allocations occurring at a Council meeting (before or after this whole mess blew up)? Yet the waste pickup discussion occurred at the 6/6/2011 Council Meeting.
Esakoff’s comment can be translated into “we admit we have delegated, without appropriate guidelines, and didn’t question”. Such a quote is only surpassed by the “too busy to comment” on C60.
Shame, shame, shame on Councillors – you have all failed to fulfill your electoral responsibilities.
And shame, shame, shame on us residents and ratepayers – we let them get away with it
July 12, 2011 at 7:15 PM
This blog site has previously mentioned that the minutes of the Pools Steering Committee are completely laughable. No information is divulged except for the fact that a “site visit” occured. With this kind of reporting any conjecture is valid and when information is scarce then suspicions as to what there is to hide will naturally surface. It’s a crazy way to run any operation much less one that will probably be close to 60 million by the time all the interest is paid off. Disgruntled says it all – there is no responsibility to ratepayers, and no accountability. What we’ve got here is nothing more than the height of arrogance by both councillors and administrators. We, the paying public, simply don’t matter and haven’t even entered into their thinking.
July 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM
More comments from the Online Leader –
stephanie writes:
Posted on 13 Jul 11 at 12:47am
I agree with David Merideth (above) and the many many people who continue to be stunned at the decision that was first made.
There are so many points to challenge, where do I start? Obviously, Oakleigh is not in the Glen Eira Shire, even if they change the name to Glen Eira Warriors, they are still based in Oakleigh.
McKinnon Basketball association highly supported the building of G.E.S.A.C supplying over 3000 of the 7000 signatures showing just that given to the council.
Glen Eira clubs, businesses and associations should be the first to gain the opportunity to occupy the new G.E.S.A.C facility, after all, it is us, the Glen Eira Community that are paying for it.
The only reason this tender is being challenged is because the “check and balance” is not right. The people of the community are outraged, some members of the council are outraged, even they showed their support at the general meeting.
Petitions have been signed, Facebook pages have been made, the community has tried to express their diissappointment. Lets hope the council realises that Mckinnon Basketball is the right choice, based on morality and finance and principal.
Viv Richards writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 09:02pm
Davis Meredith, So you are saying only teams from within Glen Eira’s boundaries should be eligible to play at GESAC? If so, how ridiculous. Are there no teams or players, currently playing in the MBA (domestic or Represenative) that are from outside Glen Eira’s boundaries? Is that a fact or, again, is it your opinion?? If so is the MBA the sole domain of teams/players from within Glen Eira’s boundaries? Again, is this fact or your opinion? If so, what about Brighton Wolves, St Finbar Scalpers and the many MBA Representaive players that reside outside Glen Eira?
David, in future please be factual and disclose fully when adding comments!
Viv Richards writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 08:48pm
David Meredith, I am glad you speak so highly of the McKinnon Basketball Association’s (MBA) management effectiveness. That, then, speaks glowingly of Bob Mann, MBA founder, President & General Manager for 13 years, LIFE MEMBER of the MBA and recipient of a Basketball Victoria 15 year distinguished service award. A person that was able to set the MBA on its way and is now the helping Glen Eira Basketball club. That should put Glen Eira Council’sl minds at ease, knowing such an esteemed basketball identity is helping the Glen Eira Basketball club.
Viv Richards writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 08:35pm
David Meredith, Not sure why you mention Oakleigh Warriors? Again, check your facts with council officers!! The Expression of Interest for use of the courts at GESAC was won by Glen Eira Basketball Club (formerly Garden State Warriors), a club that has an extensive 15-16 year association with basketball in the Glen Eira area, proudly providing basketball opportunities to many Glen Eira residents in that time.
Viv Richards writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 07:56pm
David Meredith, your comments are nothing more than your opinion. They are in no way based upon any facts whatsoever. GESAC will be a service to Glen Eira residents. Check with council officers as to the successful bidder’s strategy for the centre. If you are suggesting otherwise you are denigrating the impartiality and judgement of Glen Eira’s council officers.
Your assertion that Glen Eira residents are the only ones paying for GESAC is factually incorrect. Funding for the project is made up of $10 Million in Commonwealth Funding and a State government grant of $2.5Mil. This leaves approximately $24Million to be paid for by Glen Eira Council. One prudent and sensible way is to ensure that GESAC “pays its way” so it is not a financial burden on Glen Eira Ratepayers. Would you rather the award of court hire be awarded to a lower bidder, which would mean Glen Eira Council (read ratepayers) would have to pick up the tab? If that is your suggestion, then you are ill equipped to advise on financial viability.
July 13, 2011 at 11:38 AM
Wow Viv Richards!
Can you respond to my earlier statement, as the defendants of Glen Eira Warriors seem to be asking a lot of question yet can’t seem to answer ones put to them…I will repeat incase you missed it!
I hope Warriors have some grand plans for a broader range of programs if they intend to include EVERYONE!
This also applies to a comment made by ‘Anonymous’ in the debates named ‘Money Before Disabled Kids?’ on June 30, 2011 at 1:45 PM, a friend of a young boy who participate in the All Abilities program at MBA and was hoping that a similar program would be offered at GESAC, by Warriors!
They go on, ‘When I heard that Oakleigh had been given allocations at GESAC I looked into the programs they will be offering. Only on saturday was some information available, however it was followed by ‘more information will be available in 24 hours’. It was not until late yesterday that more information was put online. And to my dismay, there is no program on offer for children or adults with disabilities!!
Looking further through the Warriors website I came to the sad realisation that even now, whilst running out of Oakleigh, Warriors do not offer any sort of program to those with disabilities. Talk about disgusting!
Another point I would like to make is the website is very difficult to navigate through, I would look to improve this if you are going to manage such a large venue, with all the politics surrounding the allocations the expectations are going to be very high!’
So Viv Richards if you are such a strong support of Glen Eira Warriors and believe they are offering the centre to everyone, can you ask Bob Mann and his commitee where abouts on their website we would be able to find a program for those with disabilities?
July 13, 2011 at 2:57 PM
OK Viv, please consider these facts:
– 2 successive management committees at MBA could not work with Bob Mann.
– The MBA has roughly doubled in size since he resigned.
– The MBA accounts are now accurate, available, audited and healthy. This was not the case when he was the GM of the MBA.
– The girls program has flourished since he left. Bob has little interest in Girls teams, I believe there is only 1 girls team in Oakleigh Warriors.
Ultimately Bob Mann is a highly polarizing personality. A minority like him, whereas the majority dislike him. The above blogs attest to this.
July 14, 2011 at 10:29 PM
David,
Again, I ask you are your comments fact or your opinion? MBA had roughly 20 rep teams when Bob Mann left, how many do they have now? 24. That doesn’t look like “roughly double” to me. No wonder you can’t comment on financial viability. Either you can’t read or you can’t add up!
Also, the MBA is in it’s 16th year, not 20 as you have said and the Garden State Warriors (now Glen Eira Basketball Club) were a “Foundation” club of the MBA back in 1995 and were formed and ARE BASED IN GLEN EIRA. For your info MBA was formed on 4/8/1995.
Don’t know why you & others continue to talk about Oakleigh Warriors????? Oh, I know why, this is the MBA and it’s supporters “spinning” the truth, again!!
July 14, 2011 at 11:07 PM
The McKinnon Basketball Association was formed….spiritually at least, when Bob won a basketball in a raffle in December 1991, almost 20 years ago. That fact has always been the story told. Bob describes himself as a 20 year vetern of VJBL & BigV coaching….even has a 15 year award from Basketball Victoria given a number of years ago.
July 14, 2011 at 11:21 PM
David, I really can’t believe you (and others) can hold so much hatred for Bob Mann.
Regarding the MBA: He was the founder of the association, he served as President & GM for 13 years, is a Life Member of the MBA, received a 15 year DISTINGUISHED SERVICE to Basketball award from Basketball Victoria, Received a life membership from McKinnon Lakers (now known as Bentleigh Lakers). These are all facts, I challenge you to disprove any of them? To do so would be to delete what is currently on the MBA website.
Let’s see yours (and others at MBA) Basketball CV’s next to Bob’s!
On the other hand what have you (and others) achieved in your time in the MBA? Oh wait, I know, in my opinion you constructively dismissed Bob Mann from the MBA. Also you disallowed Garden State Warriors teams from playing in the MBA. Now that is something you (and others) can tell you grandchildren. Something to be proud of?
July 15, 2011 at 12:12 AM
David,
I can’t understand your (and others) opinion of Bob Mann?
Regarding the MBA and Bob Mann: He was the founder of the Association, served for 13 years as President & GM, received a 15 year DISTINGUISHED SERVICE to Basketball Award from Basketball Victoria, was awarded a Life Membership to McKinnon Lakers (now Bentleigh Lakers), was awarded a Life Membership to the MBA in 2007. These are facts, I dare you to disprove them. To do so would mean deleting information on the MBA website.
What is your (and others) claim to fame? Let’s see your achievements in basketball and the MBA. Let’s see how they stack up against Bob’s CV. Actions and verifiable achievements speak louder than words.
If you want to denigrate Bob, then let’s see what you can be proud of?
Oh wait, I know voting to disallow GSW teams from playing in MBA domestic competitions: I quote “In the meantime the Executive also exercises its right under clause 2.6 of the constitution not to accept any GSW teams to its domestic competition, as you will be aware this decision is final and binding. Needless to say this also includes your access to training space which has now been reallocated to other clubs.”
What thought did you and the others give the families of GSW members when you chose to follow that course of action? In my opinion, very little.
Please remember that GSW was a foundation club of the MBA.
Perhaps Bob can be polarizing at times and some of his decisions are not universally popular, however, how many Presidents, CEO’s or GM’s, Prime Minister’s, decisions are? Based on my observations and understanding it is my contention that (MODERATORS HAVE DELETED THE FINAL PART OF THIS SENTENCE)
July 13, 2011 at 1:54 PM
Viv Richards is sure making the runs! It was my understanding that ‘Garden State Warriors’ died when they became ‘Oakleigh warriors’. Glen Eira Warriors was only formed last month.
Once again, this is not about personalities though some want to make it that way. The Officers of the Council cannot consider giving the facility to an outside organisation as ‘Community benefit’….that is the argument.
Below is the letter sent to MBA by Paul Bourke.
“Thank you for your response to Council’s public Expression of Interest (EOI) process for the use of the facilities at the soon to be completed Glen Eira Sports and Aquatic Centre (GESAC). The facility is on target to open in late 2011.
We regret to inform you that your application for use has been unsuccessful. This decision has been based on an evaluation process based on three criteria in order of importance and weighting:
1. Community Benefit
2. Price
3. Capacity
In terms of feedback on your application, the following should be noted:
– GESAC is a major community facility and Council wishes to see maximum community use. The McKinnon Basketball Association (MBA) proposed 2,160 hours of community basketball per annum and Council has accepted a proposal which will see 3,675 hours per annum of community basketball. This use will be available to any person and any Club which plays with the GESAC-based Association.
– The allocated group offered a wider range of programs for the community.
– The allocated group offered a much more comprehensive marketing program to ensure its success.
– The allocated group offered payment at the level already in place in many similar centres around Melbourne and which will contribute to the Council providing and maintaining the facility without cost to ratepayers. The McKinnon Basketball Association indicated that it gave a relatively lower financial priority to court hire and a higher weighting to other organisational priorities.
The evaluation process included Council contacting your Association on a number of occasions to encourage the MBA to submit a more competitive EOI. I acknowledge the time and effort which your Committee put into that process to ensure that your bid represented the considered position of the MBA, taking all factors into account.
Yours sincerely,
Paul Burke
Director Community Relations”
Lets not go through each point but take note that the MBA has no need to market its programs…..already all in place.
Also note that David Meredith runs a club at McKinnon, the Bentleigh Lakers, that is 4 times the size of Warriors…..no matter which name you use.
Hopefully the Councillors will take control and sort out the mess.
July 14, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Brendan,
You are a spin doctor. Garden State Warriors (GSW) did not die and they certainly didn’t become Oakleigh Warriors. Also, don’t know about Glen Eira Warriors, but GSW have changed their name to Glen Eira Basketball Club. Please check you facts.
For your info GSW just moved to SBA’s basketball competitions at Tulip St Sandringham (along with several promising MBA rep players) after their teams were removed from MBA domestic competitions. See quote from MBA President at the time.
“In the meantime the Executive also exercises its right under clause 2.6 of the constitution not to accept any GSW teams to its domestic competition, as you will be aware this decision is final and binding. Needless to say this also includes your access to training space which has now been reallocated to other clubs.”
As you suggest, perhaps the Councillors should take control and investigate this??
July 15, 2011 at 2:58 PM
My apologies. I mixed up the Garden State Warriors with the Oakleigh Warriors. The GSW play domestic out of Sandy while the Representative teams, named as the Oakleigh warriors, train and play at their home stadium, Oakleigh recreation Centre. oops!
July 14, 2011 at 11:49 PM
Brendan,
You are full of mistruth’s, no wonder you sound like you are in support of the MBA.
You say Garden State Warriors (GSW) died, that they did not and they did not become Oakleigh Warriors. However, Garden State Warriors did change their name to Glen Eira Basketball Club and now play their matches out of SBA’s Tulip Street stadium along with several promising former and current MBA rep players. Why is that?
Oh wait, I know the MBA disallowed GSW teams from playing in their domestic competitions: I quote “In the meantime the Executive also exercises its right under clause 2.6 of the constitution not to accept any GSW teams to its domestic competition, as you will be aware this decision is final and binding. Needless to say this also includes your access to training space which has now been reallocated to other clubs.”
Please remember that GSW was a foundation club of the MBA.
Are you sure this is not about personalities and one person in Particular, a person David Meredith seems to know a lot about.
July 13, 2011 at 5:18 PM
Very interesting letter posted, how about we do go through each point!
– Clearly the Warriors offered more hours which seems to be a community benefit to me that more people can play basketball for longer – about 3 days a week by the looks of it. For the MBA to complain how big their association and how desperate they are for more space that’s a pretty lousy bid!
– A wider range of programs seems like a community benefit to me. A disability program is just one program, seems to be clear that the Warriors offered a greater spread of various programs targeting different groups
– If there was a scoring process with this they would have had to score what the MBA put up. A strategy of no marketing cos we have enough players seems to be a recipe for disaster
– If the MBA weren’t offering a market rate for the facility why should Glen Eira residents subsidise them. Seems like there were a number of meetings to encourage them to increase their bid according to the letter. The last line is cryptic too. If the MBA is so big where is all the money going?
If the Bentleigh Lakers are so big maybe they should have made a bid, seems like the MBA have made an absolute hash of it and that just because they were the local association they thought they would just be handed the keys to do what they like.
All clubs had to begin as a local association at one time or another. Given the Warriors have changed their name to the Glen Eira Warriors, will be playing within Glen Eira and is open to any Glen Eira resident doesn’t that now make them a local club? I think the MBA are just rattled as they know people are going to prefer to play in a brand new facility rather than a school hall.
July 14, 2011 at 11:29 PM
Hillsy, I like it.
I tend to agree, where is the money going? Perhaps MBA’s membership should ask the treasurer or the administration where the revenue is going and what is their plan for the future, if they don’t get into GESAC?
July 13, 2011 at 6:18 PM
Wider range???
If so Hillsy will you please respond to my above comment because I still unable to see how the warriors compare when they do not offer a program for those with disabilities???
Or are you just another ‘warrior’ who is all talk???
July 13, 2011 at 10:14 PM
The Oakleigh Warriors have every right to lodge their complaint to the ombudsman.
Council have been totally negligent in how they have managed GESAC and the allocation of usage.
It is apparent both from the way memberships have been marketed and now the allocation of usage by sporting clubs that the main criteria has been maximising revenue. GESAC is being developed as a commercial operation, not as a community facility. No surprises there.
It has only been when a local sporting organisation raises objections that council has thought about the consequences of their policy. They have been caught out (again) and are now trying to backtrack. This is an indictment of our council and in particular the GESAC committee (aka Lipshutz).
Surely the guidelines for allocation of the facility were known and approved by the GESAC committee. Yet now we have a knee jerk reaction when it becomes apparent that the criteria for allocation is contrary to community interests. The incompetence of this council sadly provides some justification for the local laws which restrict “notices of motion” and place power in the hands of the administration – they are simply cannot be trusted to make intelligent decisions.
July 13, 2011 at 10:43 PM
The problem with this argument is that it’s based on the assumption that Councillors actually knew what the hell was going on. Lipshutz and Magee would have as part of the Pools Committee, but I doubt that the rest knew too much. It’s only when the shit hit the fan via the public backlash that councillors finally started to take note. The fault is definitely theirs for not insisting on being informed every step of the way. However, we’re dealing with Newton and Burke here and their supporters in Lipshutz and his gang. This is what you get when you cede power and control to directors who have their own agendas and often these agendas are so deeply buried that no one knows what’s going on until it’s too late. This should be the perfect example to councillors and the community that Newton and Burke do no favours to the community and that we would all be better off without them. Actually, let’s take it a step further and claim that the community will be better off without most of these councillors as well.
July 13, 2011 at 10:49 PM
No, the argument is based on the assumption that the GESAC committee knew what was going on and council SHOULD HAVE known what was going on.
July 14, 2011 at 3:43 PM
More online Leader comments –
Irene Molz writes:
Posted on 12 Jul 11 at 03:40pm
My daughter has Aspergers and has been faced with barriers her whole life. Finally, we found a place were she could get out of her grey place and just learn at her own speed only to once again be shoved into that grey place again. When will those people ie N.I.M.B.Y.S. & Counsellors all give our children who are challenged, not through fault of their own, a break. Those neighbours next to Swim4All should come and have a look at those beautiful children enjoy their lessons and then go into their homes and think about their petty complaint. Shame on you for putting our children back into that grey place. Shame!!!!
Megan Rapp writes:
Posted on 3 Jul 11 at 01:24pm
My two sons have been swimming with Swim 4 All for more than three years and I can tell council right now that their pool will be hosting NO comparable classes to what is offered at Swim 4 All. I have never seen a swim school that teaches such a broad spectrum of learners under one roof!
Also, I think that it is important to note that the “concerned objectors” who rallied to keep Swim 4 All from providing services to families with both able-bodied as well as disabled swimmers was that they didn’t like cars pulling in and out of a parking lot or the sounds of children swimming INDOORS in the middle of the afternoon. Shame on council for pandering to N.I.M.B.Y.s (Not In My Back Yard).
It is our responsibility as conscientious citizens to see that all children have the BEST access to services such as swimming lessons which are not only fun, and in some cases therapeutic, but also a life saving skill.
Desanka Mitsioulis writes:
Posted on 30 Jun 11 at 09:10pm
Come on city of glen eira, you provide so many great important resources, this must must be one of them also! My son is 3 and has autism, he is doing really well at swim4all, we’ve been going for a year now and he has learnt so much and is so happy and loves everyone there! There should be lot more natalie’s in this world!
July 15, 2011 at 11:12 AM
Moderators this is beyond a debate, everyone is entitled to there opinion and no matter who gets the venue it should be shared for all. There has been a lot of hurt on both sides, the MBA and the warriors but surely you are all adult enough to realise its time to grow up??
July 22, 2011 at 3:34 PM
Seems a pity that 1200 odd LOCAL players will not be able to benefit from the new GESAC facility, being eliminated by cost. A cost issue created either by Council or by the organisation who presented the successful tender. I feel we should remember that any LOCAL player (or parent of that player) have already contributed towards the cost of GESAC, by the payment of rates. Rates paid in the past that contributed to a healthy surplus of past, which no doubt will, in part, contribute to the building cost of GESAC and, rates paid today and in the future that will also contribute to loan repayments and the running of GESAC. This ‘rate cost’ is not contributed to by non-local players, or parents. Seems to me that LOCALS across the board should have some discount for any use of GESAC. May be interesting to study the player postcodes of each organisation who wish to use the courts.
Rob Spaulding,
former Councillor GECC.
former member pools steering committee.
former chair sport and rec committee.
July 22, 2011 at 6:24 PM
Agree that we should look after locals first. That’s why Nick V from Mulgrave and mates from Essendon and Windsor have a cheek in complaining about paying fees to use Caulfield Park for their soccer games. Glen Eira has the least open space in Victoria yet we are allowing everyone else in and neglecting ratepayers.
July 28, 2011 at 6:21 PM
Mr Spaulding I’d like to know where you get the information that 1200 odd local players will not be able to benefit from the new GESAC facility?
It is a patently incorrect and mis-informed statement. Perhaps you should call the winning group’s President or any of their committee members?
Un-like the McKinnon Basketball Association (MBA) no players or teams will be prevented from playing in their competitions at GESAC. They intend to accept all comers, especially including from Glen Eira.
For your information, the MBA kicked out the successful bidder’s domestic club (Garden State Warriors) nearly two years ago. This club has its origins and base in Glen Eira and was one of the founding member clubs of the MBA. This really is the pot calling the kettle black.
Your suggestion to study player post codes is farcical. But perhaps lets study the MBA’s current player post codes. Interesting that the second largest club, and their are only 5 clubs, that plays in MBA’s current competitions is the Brighton Wolves. What do you think their post codes would be???
This whole agument about local players is non-sensical. The MBA know a lot of their membership (probably 35%) reside outside Glen Eira. But they don’t highlight it as it doesn’t serve them politically to make that fact known.
Another point – are GESAC vetting post codes for gym or swimming memberships?
The successful bidder will welcome all to play at GESAC, including residents from Glen Eira and players and teams from the MBA – period. Contact their President or committee for confirmation of this FACT.
July 29, 2011 at 9:59 AM
Rob Spaulding, like everyone, was dismayed to hear that an outside group has been given control of a Glen Eira based facility. The Garden State Warriors seem to have a score to settle and will undoubtedly see some teams move across from the McKinnon Basketball Association to play in the new Centre, it certainly will be exciting to play there! Where will all the officials come from….Oakleigh? As Garden State Warriors have nothing but local domestic teams, is Oakleigh Warriors also going to become a tenant? Please give us contact info for Garden State Warriors. Do they have a webpage? What is the difference between a Club and an Association? So many questions to be answered!
July 29, 2011 at 9:10 AM
Rob Spaulding, like everyone was shocked to hear that basketball will be run by a Club rather than an Association. Looks like the Garden State Warriors have a score to settle! Would be happy to talk to Committee but Garden State Warriors haven’t put any contact information out other than Oakleigh Warriors General Manager mobile and email. Does Garden State Warriors have a webpage or just share?
Everyone is getting excited at seeing and hopefully competing in the new centre. Will there be enough Coaches and referees? Will Oakleigh Warriors continue to play out of their Monash based 4 court stadium? So many questions.