SPEAKER #8: stated that he was present to learn and this was an issue that he felt the community should be ‘very concerned’ about.
SPEAKER #9 – stated that this meeting is like the first meeting over the Caulfield Park pavilion, ‘when we had some technical matters only that we could discuss’ ….(what been determined here as discussion points is) ‘compliance of the toilet block and the carpark’. So if that’s the case ‘what is there really to discuss at all?’…..’What is the purpose of having us all here to talk about nonsense?’….’We are very concerned about what goes on in the centre of the racecourse……(unless there’s communication)’ what is the point of meetings like this?. They’re a farce!’ Urged council to get some ‘decent consultation going’ because ‘there seems to be a lack of consultation in all areas of open space’. reminded audience of a comment by John Patrick at the VCAT hearing over the pavilion when Patrick said ‘well, car parks are open space’! ‘Now is this an opinion the council holds generally?…..
Hyams interjected and said that no, council wouldn’t define a car park as open space. Speaker said ‘Well John Patrick did in front of four of us here’.
SPEAKER #10 – asked about the fence and if ‘tangalakis could give us an idea of some of the town planning considerations’ in relation to the fence. Asked if this would impact on amenity of enjoyment and whether this was another ground for consideration of the application.
TANGALAKIS responded that ‘appearance’ is what’s important about the fence. ‘How it looks…..and whether it’s appropriate for a park’. Hyams then said that they could modify the fence as part of their considerations.
SPEAKER #11: Asked if playground was part of application – was told ‘yes’. No detail provided about the playground; Tangalakis then asked if the speaker was an original objector and if so she would have seen the drawings. Speaker responded that what she’d seen were ‘board games’ and “I think that is a silly idea’. Stated that she has young children and couldn’t imagine anyone bothering to go over to a board game if that’s all that was going to be offered. Kids need better designed playgrounds. ..’.waste of money to put a board game there’. Suggested that unless decent scale is erected then it would remain ‘isolated’ and ‘neglected’. Queried the location adjacent to a lake – safety. Needs fencing and will be cold. Looked at plans, ‘i tried but I could not work out the scale so had no idea’ of anything. In support of developing centre, but if the plan goes ahead it will simply be a ‘lost opportunity’ to do something worthwhile. Concerned that this is all MRC work and that council should ‘independently assess’ merits. Objects to fence, and ‘why it’s necessary’ since access is denied until training over, so why need it? Access point for family not officially recognised so makes it difficult for people to get to facilities. Needs to be ‘equitable access’ to these facilities.
SPEAKER #12 – Questioned whether council looked at safety and who (either MRC OR COUNCIL) is ultimately responsible?
TANGALAKIS: ‘SAFETY ISN’T A TOWN PLANNING MATTER’!!!!!!!!! (uproar) repeated ‘Unfortunately safety is not a town planning matter’. Hyams then stated that they would need to get a permit to build the toilets and that’s when safety comes into it. speaker then asked ‘so that’s a separate issue and we have another meeting about it then?”. Answer from Hyams was ‘yes’. Speaker also related that she had rung council this morning seeking information and that since this was a planning application, ‘planning applications are not advertised’. Stated that it’s a really important issue so ‘would you be legally compromised if you put this meeting on your website?’ Hyams talked about putting up notices around the racecourse but speaker exclaimed ‘this affects everybody’ not just people around the racecourse. ‘This is a community issue for 40 square km of Glen Eira’….I couldn’t find out about this meeting I had to ring around’ when there are advertisements for everything else. Brought up C60, subdivision and the centre of the racecourse and ‘no body knows from one meeting to the other ….I am reasonably intelligent; I have followed this issue….completely and utterly confused….and I still am 3 to 4 years later’. (Applause)
SPEAKER #12 – ‘confusion is the name of the game’. Stated that original notices outside racecourse listed 31 Station St so not clear about the centre of the racecourse. Asked people to put up their hands if anyone received a letter from the MRC. Asked to come via the clocktower but dooor was locked. ‘do you realise there is 2km of concretised path to take cars’…..’application to park 1600 cars on event days and there’s no mention of it’. Hyams interrupted saying that this isn’t part of the application!….Speaker responded ‘well it’s on here and I’ve come tonight and this is what I’m going to say’. ‘No mention on original plan….car parking ‘area’. Fence – ‘do people think that we visually want to look at that?’…..’we go to have visual relief….we want to look at green open space….this council doesn’t really understand that’. …’.agree with trainers to improve visibility of the horses….the tenants of the tenants…’. Asked about the lake extension and whether they could have 10 megalitres of dam there since this is ‘another land grab’ since it will increase the size of the current lake. The MRC has also ‘sneaked in….too much roadway’ for ‘maintenance’. ‘That’s another 3 metre wide and probably 400 metres long’ – maybe they can simply drive around the circle?….’we don’t want all those things going through our park. I’ve never heard of such nonsense’. There’s also a description of a light pole ‘how many lightpoles are there going to be?’. ‘I think this needs throwing out and redoing’. With c60 we got a 3 dimension plan. ‘I came to look at this last week and none of this was here – it’s all just being added to every minute’. ‘Give us something to look at, something proper’. No scale anywhere. ‘Redesign this. Get rid of the roads and be honest about how many cars are going to’ be parked in centre. (APPLAUSE)
SPEAKER #13 Noted that he was here last week, banged on the door, ‘jumped in the car’ and raced down to caulfield pavilion. Frstrated that no notice on door that meeting was cancelled.’It’s just courtesy’. Hyams apologised. Speaker said ‘not you, it’s got nothing to do with you it’s administration’. Hyams then said that notices were hand delivered to all objectors. Outcry from audience at this point. Speaker stated he lives near but hasn’t received any of the 431 notices. ‘so somebody’s giving you porkies and be very careful of them’….there is no letters there is nothing’. ‘There’s always secrecy. People aren’t informed at major issues…..I talk to people….when I say come to the meeting they say ‘what for? What the MRC wants, council gives’….’Am I boring you (to Hyams and Tangalakis) I can stop if you like?’ (Hyams no’). Brought up the tetanus issue via a letter from Vic Health website which said that tetanus lives particularly in ‘horse manure’. ‘We have 150 years of horse droppings at that racecourse….tetanus will enter through the smallest break of skin’. The MRC wants tunnel used by people and horses. ‘That is really playing Russian Roulette’…I think you should first get a health clearance on this whole issue before you start building things….have to remove 4 inches of topsoil and put topsoil everywhere….
Audience asked for a response and whether the health issue had been assessed by council. Hyams said ‘we will refer it to our health department’.
SPEAKER #14: stated he was a local resident and only became aware of this in last couple of weeks. ‘I’m leaving this meeting concerned, very concerned about the appropriateness of communication….is the health issue that has just been raised part of the planning? Hyams: ‘we will look at that one’. Speaker then asked whether it was appropriate for the planning department to look at it. Hyams responded ‘kind of not’…..’Can you call for interested parties….to give alternatives(to the plan)?’ Spoke about other countries and how residents can make application for ‘a different type of plan’ for open space. Hyams said that when its council land ‘we do have quite an extensive consultation process’, but in this case it’s ‘not one of our parks, its the MRC, sorry racecourse’. Discussion over MRC, trustees and why power was ceded to MRC. Hyams said he doesn’t know because he has never been a trustee. Question: ‘can we understand why the trsutees have abrogated their responsibility to the MRC?’ Speaker asked that application be set aside and residents give council something else to consider apart from this application.
SPEAKER #15: Asked where this application came from since there’s been an ‘agreement’ between council and the MRC. Was this part of the agreement? Hyams ‘The plans we have are in accordance with the agreement we have between Council and the MRC’ Speakder then said that ‘there hasn’t been any input from the community’. Asked Tangalakis which notes she has taken that ‘will affect the planning issues’. Wanted to know from everything that’s been said, what is ‘useful’? Tangalakis: ‘Just (first speakers comments) to tell you the honest truth’. Asked about health and Tangalakis responded that health is not a planning matter and ‘that’s why we have a health department here’. she would refer it to them. Speaker then asked why a meeting wasn’t held prior to the planning conference? another speaker then said ‘there should have been community input to the scheme that you, the council agreed with the MRC….it happens over and over that the thing that the community is really interested in ….agreed prior….’the horse has bolted. the thing that we are really interested in has already been decided’. speakers asked ‘where to from here?’. Hyams responded that ‘this is the most they(MRC) were prepared to give us, the most they were prepared to give us’. Speaker – ‘so are you saying that this is simply a statutory process and everything we’ve said is pointless?’
Hyams reiterated that he set out the parameters and that ‘these are not things we can consider when we decide’ on the planning permit.
SPEAKER #16: asked about planning law and what can be considered such as the fence. Wanted to know ‘on what basis, or what kind of criteria…..will you recommend that the fence be either 2.5 metres high or 1.5 metres high….on what criteria will you recommend that it be black mesh, or white mesh….on what criteria will you accept ….a dog exercise park smack in the middle of a jogging track….what criteria will you be using and…will that be explained to the community?’ Tangalakis said that she hasn’t assessed anything yet, so ‘you’ll find you’re answers in the council report’.
SPEAKER #17: Forge spoke about her role as a trustee and that she ‘will take the ideas’ from tonight to the next trustee meeting.
August 23, 2011 at 9:42 PM
So Jamie, you got the best you could get. Rubbish! You got the best for the MRC and nothing for the community. But that was always the plan wasn’t it?
August 23, 2011 at 10:08 PM
These last couple of posts are really informative. They show exactly how out of touch this council is with residents. The theme that comes through time and time again is communication. This isn’t something new. It’s been the bane of residents lives for years now. Nothing changes however, despite all the empty words and promises. Secret deals happen continually and then there are the theatrics of such meetings – statutory requirements and nothing more. At least the MRC is “honest” through it’s non-appearance. They are telling residents exactly how little they matter. Council on the other hand is far less honest and certainly not transparent. What I find particularly frustrating is that throughout this entire saga of the C60 and now the racecourse centre the line that has been taken is what Hyams allegedly said – that council got the best deal it could. What has never been explained, at least not to my satisfaction, is why council had to take the few crumbs that were thrown its way. The earth would not have fallen in if the C60 had been rejected, and now the earth won’t fall in if this application is also rejected. Forget the political pressure – more pressure can be brought to bear with councils supporting residents as recent weeks have shown in other councils. Councillors have definitely not covered themselves with glory, and administrators have, as many believe, aided and abetted the MRC and failed to adequately represent the interests of residents.
August 23, 2011 at 10:28 PM
Once upon a time Lipshutz recommended that a resident acquaint himself with Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. Wouldn’t be such a bad idea if dear Effie were also to acquaint herself with this volume given the nature and tone of her answers. Hyams should also ensure that he acquaint himself fully with all the permutations of the planning application as well as the racecourse itself – his lack of knowledge on fundamental issues is staggering. Since he’s one of the select group which has already decided the issue, I guess that knowledge is not really necessary or relevant in this case. The gang simply does what it is told.
August 23, 2011 at 11:37 PM
Does anyone know who will be managing the use of the so called junior soccer area.
August 24, 2011 at 9:58 AM
What a fiasco this meeting was.
Going back to fundamentals – what do the residents want? They want a well designed, accessible, public park in the centre of the racecourse and to have some input into park development. Since the centre of the racecourse only represents about 5% of the racecourse reservation (that is under the terms of trust deed set aside for the purpose of racecourse, public park and public recreation area) this seems to be a reasonable request (not to mention a right).
What do the residents get?
• Silly administrative errors (e.g. advising a meeting date before ensuring a Councillor was available to Chair the meeting)
• Unintelligent plans
• Fences which serve no purposes since the public are not allowed on the course during training sessions
• Sports fields located behind said fences and away from the parking area
• Park space lost to MRC maintenance roads
• Poorly designed play areas
• No access to the centre of the racecourse park from the “generously donated” park at the Glen Eira/Kambrook Road roundabout.
• The right to comment only on the toilet block design and the aesthetics of the fence (because of closed negotiations between Council and the MRC).
• Lack of knowledge and extremely questionable attitudes from the Chair.
Councillors and Administration explanation for the above is that “ït’s the best we could do” which is difficult to reconcile with their continual spin of excellence in all things.
This meeting showed that residents are no longing buying the spin.
August 24, 2011 at 11:40 AM
With respect to the comment by Council that “Safety isn’t a Town Planning Matter”: I found *only* 106 references to safety in the Glen Eira Planning Scheme. None of them said safety was irrelevant or should be ignored.
August 24, 2011 at 6:12 PM
Reprobate, you know that only what suits will be taken into account or emphasised. That’s what the delegation guidelines say ‘generally in accordance’ with policy. So if only 1 out of 5 things meet the standards then you can bet that if they want the application shoved through it will be shoved through. Now with the fence it looks like its all going to boil down to Ms Tangalakis’ aesthetic sensibility (god help us!) since it’s she who will decide what it looks like. There’ll be black mesh and maybe just maybe a 1.8 fence to shut us up. I visualise more yellow concrete, more black mesh, and heaps more exclusion. Well done Hyams and the gang and extremely well done Newton.