We thought residents would like a ‘bird’s eye’ view of what has been happening at Bailey’s Reserve. First off, we present the BEFORE AND AFTER LOOK.
Next there is a slideshow where the size and scale of GESAC may be truly appreciated.
December 12, 2011
Our Disappearing Parkland
Posted by gleneira under GE Planning, GE Service Performance[47] Comments
Glen Eira Debates 
December 12, 2011 at 10:08 AM
This is a testiment to runaway Feldman ably assisted by Tang and Stoikis. Disgraceful
December 12, 2011 at 10:11 AM
More than a quarter of the park is now ugly concrete and it’s not one park anymore but 3 separate sections. How this could be allowed to happen is incredible. The other thing I notice is the loss of so many trees.
This is nothing like the presentation from the architects that was on public display. We’re paying for the biggest eye sore in the southern metropolitan zone.
December 12, 2011 at 10:40 AM
No wonder residents are complaining. The car park goes right up to their front door except for the narrow street. What a wonderful view of parkland they’ll now have and you can bet cars galore parked in front of them as well. But hey – they’re only ratepayers and noone in Glen Eira gives a stuff about them or local amenity!
December 12, 2011 at 10:46 AM
What a load of nonsense! ratepayers were screaming out for this development and the vast majority will support it for the loss of some and i emphasis some parkland.
December 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM
Rubbish. Residents wanted to save a pool that Newton threatened to close. Betr they never envisaged that it would be this humungous size and that instead of green lawn with umbrellas to lie around the pool all they’d get is concrete and heaps of trees gone. They also wouldn’t have expected that their rates would skyrocket as this has to in order to cover for the gaping black hole that Newton has created for future generations.
December 12, 2011 at 7:39 PM
Hey Anon how about we come around to your home and take 30% – that’s only some and I emphasis some land!!!!
As for screaming – the only screams I heard were to just fix the pool.
December 12, 2011 at 10:58 AM
Hells bells. What a sprawling monster, devouring our precious parkland. Glen Eira council used to promote our city as being, Green Gracious and Gregarious. Now its just Grey, Greedy, and Ugly.
This badly designed barn-like building shows us exactly what our councillors and staff really think of our environment. Chirping away, as they do, about how many water tanks and green light bulbs have been installed, what a despicable sham. The photos shown here for the first time, tell us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. No wonder the councillors are silent on costs, have no management plans, and fail due process.
A couple of questions. 1. Why wasn’t an Australia-wide Design Competition held for this huge project? 2. Why hasn’t council published the true costs of this? All we get are vague ever-changing estimates.
We have a Pools Committee run by Cr. Lipshutz, a Kaffka-like operation where the chairman obviously doesn’t know whether he is Arthur or Martha. We all can see the tunnel, but there is no light yet at the end of it. Why there are so many cloak and daggar secret meetings? The whole bloody lot should be sacked on the spot. What does the Minister say about this, and when will the Minister finally act?
December 12, 2011 at 11:51 AM
Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident in our city, up until the VEAC’s Melbourne Metropolitan review identified Glen Eira as having the lowest amount of public open space for it residents.
Glen Eira’s Councillors and officers refused to believe this open space short fall. And by there continuing actions still do not understand its implications for our cities future.
Now we now better, Glen Eira has a short fall in open space so far below the average Melbourne Met average. This should be seen as a current planning problem.
So far it hasn’t, the building of infrastructural, concreting, tree removal has continued throughout our open space areas.
Almost all the land assets that could have served as neighbourhood parks have been sold off, the last example was a large block in Station Street McKinnon, that Port Phillip Council saw the value, and purchased that land. This area could have reverted back into open space for Glen Eira residents at little cost to us as we already owned it.
Glen Eira has reached and exceeded its 2016 estimated population prediction in 2010-2011, and Glen Eira continues to grow.
The future looks bleak for Glen Eira’s passive open space, the officers and most councillors seem to view passive open space as spare or under valued land waiting to be developed for sporting activities or carparks, or concreted over to save maintenance. It is a 19th century view that has prevailed in Glen Eira almost unchallenged to the present day.
The two images do tell a sobering story, and they also show us the future of what is going to happen to our passive open space, unless there is a turn around in values at the town hall. It will be a “death of a thousand cuts”
Our growing population may or may not be sustainable in many ways. Public Open Space is just one area that should be addressed.
Will Glen Eira’s existing open space bare the pressure of the needs to provide more infrastructure, or will our passive and green open space vanishing under this pressure?
Glen Eira has no up-to date open space strategy that identifies the values of passive/green open space. A Open Space strat could sets planning parameters to protect our green areas for the value they provide.
However the current prevailing value system that has seen development throughout our green areas, in conjunction with years and years of land asset stripping has left us with narrowing options.
Are we are doomed to more and more GESAC monsters and car-parks, sporting infrastructure concrete paths access roads eating into our merge open space and greens areas.
Or should we turn to a more sustainable future that values open space for the values and relaxing and environmental safe-guards it holds.
There has been a lot of recent research into the values that open space provides, it more than pays for its up-keep, and also contributes to our society in very healthy beneficial way.
Deep down as people we know these values, as being important.
One GESAC is enough!
Now let us see some real thought and action, on Glen Eira’s future public open space requirements uses and values.
December 12, 2011 at 1:19 PM
It’s clearly too late to do anything about this development. But I would think it will be a hard earned lesson to councillors and to ratepayers about how much they can trust an administration that deals in waffle, generalities and secrecy. The full costs of gesac are yet to be revealed. The running costs year after year are yet to be revealed. The impact on our rates are yet to be revealed. I’m also wondering what the current and forecast interest rate deductions are going to have for this municipality, especially if the interest repayments are fixed for the next 20 years. We could be in a situation where everyone else is paying 4 to 5% and Glen Eira is forced to pay almost double that.
I also believe that it is entirely negligent for one councillor to be on all the committees that are intended to provide oversight on such a huge project. This is a conflict of interest no doubt and the community would be much better off if these duties had been distributed amongst all councillors. Currently Lipshutz is chair of the pools committee, on the audit committee, the laws committee, and nominally has been on the finance committee – not to mention the racecourse committee. What qualifications he brings to each of these positions is open to debate. Regardless it does nothing for confidence and perceptions that these important roles should have been kept entirely separate. Maybe, just maybe, if there had been proper disclosure all along the way the current mess might have been averted.
December 12, 2011 at 3:14 PM
gesac has got the world’s biggest tea cosy.
December 12, 2011 at 3:42 PM
Yellow Brick Roads are sprouting like mushrooms. Newton’s an absolute wizard at turning parkland into concrete. He’s got his able little helpers as well in the gang.
December 12, 2011 at 4:03 PM
Wanna lay bets on the opening anyone? I’ll put $5 on that it won’t be open before March 16th. That should really stuff up the budget good and proper with the entire summer practically gone and everyone back at work. Ho hum. Weasel words galore from Lipshutz and Hyams for sure. Hey Jimbo, got anything to say since you’re on the pool committee as well – oh apart from naming the slides that is.
December 12, 2011 at 4:09 PM
Now that it is there and nothing can change it I just hope it works for at least some of the people of Glen Eira and adjoining municipalities. However, I will be interested to know how the huge water slides are going to operate. From the photographs it looks a bit dangerous to me. I just hope all the safety precautions are in place – and for this reason I assume it will require operational staff whenever the centre is operating – and hopefully lots of risk insurance.
December 12, 2011 at 4:42 PM
10 bucks on, not before 1st July
December 12, 2011 at 4:46 PM
Now wait and watch for the argument that Bailey reserve has been so badly degraded that more carparking for Gesac will not alter it that much.
This is how Newton works, degrade, discredit, and sell-off or destroy.
December 12, 2011 at 4:58 PM
I’m looking at these aerial shots and trying to figure out where the playground is supposed to be going. My guess is alongside the outside pool in the top left hand corner. If this is indeed the relocated playground area then it’s another example of the total insanity and incompetence of this council. In the first place it’s next to a pool, so will it be fenced off? Then it’s miles away from the car park – a really brilliant idea when moms have to carry prams, bags, baby capsules and the rest perhaps. Everything this council does is so ad hoc that it’s unbelievable.
December 12, 2011 at 5:03 PM
Anon 4 sounding very like Cr Jamie Hyams, your pechulent little dummy spits, only shows the depth of your memory and (MODERATORS: rest of sentence deleted)
Resident were not screaming for the GESAC monster, the facts were they would have been more than happy with renos on both pools to bring them up to a better standard.
I emphasize some parkland, for now, the rest will follow ASAP, Jamie the deep thinker of Glen Eira.
December 12, 2011 at 6:02 PM
Clearly from a nice municipal pool, to a industrial monster.
All or 50 million.
It could have been destroyed for a whole lot less, if you ask me.
December 12, 2011 at 6:22 PM
Come plaque time, the inscription should read:
“Built on poor planning, no consultation, and no respect for open space” – signed “the Newton, Burke and gang legacy”
December 12, 2011 at 6:56 PM
Anon. 10 You did correctly mention the other adjoining municipalities. Remember that GESAC is a REGIONAL pool, which is why it qualified for Federal funding grant monies. The area (catchment area) serviced by GESAC extends across large parts of the adjoining municipalities. Only about 1/3 of the serviced area lies inside Glen Eira, yet we (Glen Eira ratepayers) are paying for the whole of the construction cost.
The other adjoining councils are paying absolutely nothing towards the cost of GESAC. Good for them, but bad for the Bunnies of Glen Eira. We have been taken for another ride by Newton and Lipshutz. (Remember, Newton initiated the idea, according to council records, and Lipshutz jumped onto the bandwagon. Must have seemed like a good idea at the time, to fix a leaky old pool).
The other councils must be laughing all the way to their piggy banks. By the way, just watch as the published costs start to escalate . (The final bill is expected to top $100 million, according the money people). Eventually all costs will be revealed, perhaps by another Auditor General’s Investigation. In the meantime, expect more denials and hand-wringing by Lipshutz, Hyams and Tang . Pity we didn’t have some real accountants on council instead of a surfeit of lawyer types.
December 12, 2011 at 9:17 PM
The development has split the park in two, now we have a GESAC back paddock just waiting to be improved by a car park expansion.
The hazard park users will cause to the pool user by crossing the car park to get to the other side will need a chain wire fence to stop them.
I, 2, 3, Bailey Park gone. The local residents have been well and truly done-over by this mess.
December 12, 2011 at 10:40 PM
Why can’t people walk on grass and nice soft gravel? Why does everything have to turn into yellow concrete that stick out from satellite photos thousands of feet up in the air? Total madness and those damn ugly concrete blocks that now form borders everywhere you go. I spoke with some of the guys who were putting in a path last year some time and I asked them who chose the colour and they said “council”. Whoever is the urban designer (if they’ve even got one) deserves to be sacked or re-educated. Go to some of the best parks in melbourne and you won’t find concrete anywhere. It’s disgraceful and a huge waste of public money because concreting is not cheap. Like the exeloos no one wants them and they’re far too expensive. But will this council ever listen to what people want? Only when Newton gets sacked together with the majority of councillors. I just can’t wait for the next election because heads are going to roll.
December 12, 2011 at 10:52 PM
I notice in the agenda items that 47 square metres of open space are being given to the pre-school in this park. A good cause perhaps, but it’s so they can put up a shed and not for kids themselves to use as extra playground. People should also have a look at the attachment that goes with this because it is an absolute joke. No streets are named so you don’t know which side is up or down and it literally is impossible to make head or tail out of. Now councillors are expected to make decisions on the basis of such useless information. Pathetic! I’m just left to puzzle over whether to call this incompetence again or is it deliberate so that no-one knows what is going on. This to my mind is typical of the quality that officers produce. It belongs in a kindergarten and not in a professional organisation where wages account for probably half of our rates. My 5 year old grandson could have done a better job in providing relevant labels and drawings!
December 12, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Well it’s been a while since I’ve read such garbage as some of the comments here.
It’s not that I think this centre is perfect.
It’s not in an ideal location – but it had to be built on council owned property, otherwise we’d be up for another $10-20 million for the land. Sure, over the years council have sold off a lot of public property, but that’s history now. And as far as I can see there are still 3 sporting grounds there.
And I’ll acknowledge it isn’t a pretty building (not many public swimming centres are) – but if we were aiming win architectural awards, we could probably add a few more million to the cost.
But let’s just take one issue – the size, which is something many here have commented on. The size is dependent on what facilities are included (you really can’t have basketball courts with 10 foot ceilings).
So for those concerned about the size let’s have some suggestions on what we shouldn’t have had there.
The 50m outdoor pool where people can sit and swim in summer and enjoy the outdoors?
The 25m indoor pool where people can swim all year round?
The indoor pool for learn-to-swim lessons?
The hot water pool dedicated to water activities for the disabled and older people?
The leisure pool and slides which will attract kids and families?
The basketball courts which we have two local associations fighting over?
Come on folks, which parts don’t you want?
December 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM
You’re asking the wrong questions. What needs to be asked is:
1. How competent is this council in running a business, because gesac is a business the way that it has been set up with council paying for all the outfitting, staff, and other expenses. That leads on to past history and the fact that no business venture that this council has entered into has been a success.
2. Should any council run such a business anyway?
3. The “extras” such as gyms, hydrotherapy, cafes, are there to make up for the losses that all pools experience. They are not there for the good of the community. and because they’re there, that’s why the site is so huge.
4. Instead of building double storey pavilions that cost the earth, bsketball courts could have gone into these other sites years and years ago. In fact basketball sites were initially mooted for Caulfield Park. Instead we got another monolith sitting in the middle of priceless land and another blot on the landscape.
5. The outdoor pool won’t have people sitting around basking in the sun because there’s no room for them with the size of the building. This outdoor pool should have been the main feature. it isn’t! It’s there almost as an add on to the rest – again to make money which won’t even cover costs, upkeep, maintenance, and interest repayments.
6. Other councils pool their resources and form leagues. Glen Eira doesn’t want a bar of any other council because that would cramp its dictatorial style and make Newton far more accountable.
7. there’s already a hydrotherapy centre 200 metres away
8. People wanted to save a pool. They didn’t want increased rates for the next 25 years just so egos could be inflated.
December 13, 2011 at 9:15 PM
Nice try anon, but need to do better.
Yes, I am aware that there is some sort of hydrotherapy centre nearby but I also understand that the GESAC facility has been welcomed by organisations working in disability sector and there are a range of programs planned. Following press release about Marriott Services involvement –
http://www.gleneira.vic.gov.au/Page/Page.asp?Page_Id=1873
Yes, I know it’s a council press release, but I don’t think Marriottt’s credentials can be questioned. And they wouldn’t be involved unless they thought it would be of significant benefit.
December 13, 2011 at 2:55 AM
Glenhuntly makes two errors. First, the very high value of the GESAC land, which he estimates at only $10 – 20 million. That may have been its value originally, when land was cheaper, and when it was a far smaller development (without the enlarged car park). Now, the latest version of GESAC covers about 1/3 of Bailey Reserve. That larger land area is, at current values, worth about $25 – 30 million.
Glenhuntly’s second error is to assume council-owned land is somehow free land. That is what council staff sometimes tell councillors. But it’s not true. Council staff actually includes the full valuations of all parkland in its list of assets. Worse still, the land was never lying idle in the first place, so new open space parkland will have to be found to substitute for the losses.The value of the land has NOT been included in the construction costs provided by Council.
So, taking just the construction costs of the building (without all the extras like car parks, furniture and fittings), at Council’s figure, of around $45million, add in the valuation of the land GESAC is occupying, and the real cost rises to about $70 – 75 million. We still don’t know the actual fitting out costs, or the setting up costs of the various business functions (health, fitness studios etc.), let alone the start-up costs of advertising etc.(because there is no GESAC Management Plan). We haven’t even been told how many tens of millions we will be paying in interest.
Clearly the full, all-up costs of GESAC are set to be well over $100 million, to be paid by Glen Eira ratepayers. (Glenhuntly, you too, will be one of many bunnies paying for it all). So Friends, let us rest well today, for tomorrow we will all Payeth the Piper. many, many times over.
.
December 13, 2011 at 9:19 AM
Anon 19 … You are right on, just wait until residents get the bill to remove this yellow concrete after it has had its day. It will cost far more to remove than lay.
Yes no other council is laying concrete paths like GE does, Higgins Reserve has almost 2 kilometres worth of the ugly yellow stuff. Maybe someone is getting kick-backs from the concrete industry, this may explain it.
December 13, 2011 at 9:24 AM
Where are the trees in this area, it is a concrete and steel jungle, with a few tree around the edge. Were do people wanting quality passive space go in the area, sit in the car park among the cars, I suppose.
December 13, 2011 at 9:32 AM
An article in today’s (Tuesday) Stonnington Leader on the proposed expansion of Chadston, states that the shopping centre has 400,000 visitors per year. GESAC is expecting 600,000 visitors per year! You be the judge as to the (potential) accuracy of this projected figure. We can only hope that the budget is not too reliant on such prognostications.
December 13, 2011 at 9:51 AM
Glen Eira either you mis-read or the article was edited incorrectly. It is 400,000 visitors a week or 20,000.000 a year.
December 13, 2011 at 9:59 AM
You’re correct anon! The 400,000 figure refers to interstate/overseas visitors. However, we still hold grave doubts as to the 600,000 figure.
December 13, 2011 at 10:13 AM
What is a disgrace is that lately nearly all Capital Works such as GESAC are being expended in the East, yet most of Glen Eira’s rates come from the West. We need to sack the 3 Councillors who represent the West but demonstrably do nothing for the West. Traitors to their ward.
December 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM
Your argument is entirely illogical. How can these councillors be considered “traitors” to their wards, if they’re getting the funding for their wards as you claim? The more logical approach would be to sack the other 6 councillors for failing to get money for their wards!
December 13, 2011 at 11:40 AM
Colin read Anon 27 again.
December 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM
All but a few of our councillors in Glen Eira are traitors … reason …. because they choose to represent and serve the CEO and not their electorate.
December 13, 2011 at 12:17 PM
We should understand the extent of the dudding of ratepayers. It’s not just the $100 million or so out of ratepayers pockets that will hurt. It is also a matter of lack of equity.
The area served by GESAC (ie within accessible distance of GESAC) known as the catchment area, covers less than half of Glen Eira. This means that ratepayers living in the other half are paying extra huge rates without being able to use GESAC. Shame on Hyams and Tang for being so greedy for your little patch, and shame on the GESAC chairman, Lipshutz, for being so disrespectful of half of Glen Eira – of all those in North Caulfield, Elsternwick, Gardenvale, and South Caulfield.
Wherever you look, and however you look at it, its just one Helluva stuff up.
Clearly these three lawyer types are not businessmen, and should never have been let loose near a $100 million business venture like this.
December 13, 2011 at 2:48 PM
As a frequent user of this park I find a lot of the comments here amusing
Firstly absolutely agree that the vast majority of residents would have been happy with a upgrade of the Bentleigh East Pool. GESAC smacks of this council developing for the sake of developing (Keeping up with the Jones)
However it comments that the development has destroyed the park are utter nonsense. A small (and I mean very small strip of land behind the old pool has been lost as most fo the land around the pool was fenced in anyway. As well as a small reposition of the third softball diamond, cricket nets
The biggest loss is the playground which will have to be repositioned into I assume the back right corner and probably the biggest stuff up.
The arguments that we have lost 1/3 of the open space are only true if you counted the pool as open space (debatable as you had to pay to enter). This park was alway a park split into three (cricket/football, softball and the pool) and nothing has changed
Overall I think the development was unnesscary but its hardly overreaching or resulted in a signficant reduction in open space.
December 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM
At last – a sensible comment.
December 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM
Bentleigh East Res You say only a small amount of open space has been lost to GESAC. I suggest you look again at the before and after aerial photos.
Look at all the grassland areas lost, where people could rest in the sun. Look at all the beautiful trees lost. Think of the huge carbon footprint of this monster. Just the construction of the place costs us more in carbon than the Grand Prix. Worse, with 600,000 visitors, most coming by car. GESAC will create its own heat island in Glen Eira. Imagine, our very own GESAC greenhouse gas factory.
Please don’t deny the obvious, and don’t become an apologist for the excesses of City Hall. We have more than enough spin from the likes of Lipshutz, Newton, Burke and Co.. GESAC is simply the biggest single loss of open space we have ever suffered since Newton came to power.
December 13, 2011 at 7:11 PM
Don, if I thought you were serious I’d argue with you.
But I suspect you’re just making things up to have bit of fun with us.
December 13, 2011 at 4:25 PM
Circus watcher, it is not that ratepayers in the west cannot use the Cesac, it only mean they just have to travel further to get to it. And I am dead sure many will make the trip.
And do not forget there is still the charming old style Carnegie pool in between if needed, I used it the other day and whole heartily recommend it.
Sure, if they had not sold the old Council depot in Manchester Avenue that would have been a more central site but its still a long way from the far-flung corner of South and Warrigal Roads which is still after all Glen Eira.
To Bentleigh East Res
This is just the first round of “the Gesac that ate Bailey Reserve”.
December 13, 2011 at 4:38 PM
This development will overcrowd the aea withcars etc.
Despite attending two meetings concerning the pools where locals voiced their opinions as to whether the pool in East bOUNDARY rOAD AND cARNEGIE pOOL SHOULD BE MAINTAINED … THERE WAS AN OVERWHELMING VOTE IN FAVOUR OF KEEPING BOTH POOLOS AT THE McKinnon HIGH school meeting. I DID NOT SEE TOO MANY COUNCILLORS THERE AND THEY MUST HAVE HAD DEAF EARS AS TO HEARING WHAT THOSE PRESENT WANTED. wHICH WAS ONLY TWO
clean swimming pools.
Then at a later GESAC meeting in the theatrette the parkin was discussed and being very experienced in the basketball fiel I tendered that the parking for six hard ball courts was inadequate. Guess what my calculations after 15yrs of basketball were once again were completely ignored so just wait and see what a disaster it proves without public transport if it is ever finished. Now soome of the basketballer are to be coming from outside G. E boarders so walking and riding less likely. Oh how many bike racks?
AND BY THE WAY HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY WALKED FROM THE HARD RAIL. i HAVE IT IS A LONG LONG WAY, QUITE EXHAUSTING, I cannot see teenagers doning it or mothers pushing prams.
What do other reaqders think?????
December 13, 2011 at 5:25 PM
Yes you are 100% correct “Democracy” people were overwhelmingly in favour of keeping both pools upgraded, at a less building and running cost too.
Most of the councillors are in denial over this fact. But they have nowhere to hide, they have throw their lot in with Newton, no doubt dazzled by the prestige of have their names connected with this big project.
Let see how long it take Newton to start the rumour that Carnegie pool needs to be flogged off, because its a financial burden.
Now that he has most of the current councillors compromised up to their to the necks with CESAC, it should not be that hard to do. They will become pawns to the rescue of his reputation, with the next round of asset stripping.
December 13, 2011 at 5:29 PM
To be fair, this lot of councillors inherited the decision from the previous lot. However, Lipshutz, Esakoff and Tang were all councillors in 2006. Hyams probably would have supported them as well had he been on council at this time. As for Carnegie pool, the downgrading has already started – $250,000 budgeted for 2 years ago. Current budget only $205,000.
December 13, 2011 at 7:28 PM
I think you are overlooking Magee. He will be claiming that it was his sole initiative. Feldman and Staikos were also pushing hard. Your objectivity is slipping a little.
January 5, 2012 at 10:34 PM
I am in no way a greenie, but this is a perfect example of man’s inability to “leave things alone” – in the misguided name of “efficiency” and “productivity”. As the famous Janis Joplin line goes “they pave paradise and put up a parking lot”.
While Bailey may not have ever been everyones idea of a paradise, it was a rare space where people could go to play soccer, cricket, relax, or just play with their dogs over a large uninterrupted space. Remember the days of three cricket games going on every Saturday at Bailey? I guess that’s why kids have to play on Friday nights and Sunday’s now. I suppose the councillers would have local kids playing indoor soccer and cricket at GESAC instead of running around outdoors?
Now we have a sad looking concrete jungle, overlooked by a monolith, where park users are left with the little space they have left in the shadows of cars and buildings, instead of grass and space.
The builders even couldn’t resist putting a concrete baseball diamond over the back oval. And look at the main pitch. I guess a straight drive six from the Centre Road end will never be the same for the cricketers.
Whoever was responsible for this should hang their heads in utter shame while they are going down the GESAC waterslide.