Item 9.1 – Emmy Monash (Hawthorn Rd) 4 storey development
Pilling was absent. Lipshutz moved an amendment that the officer’s recommendations for setbacks be reduced. Seconded by Okotel
LIPSHUTZ: Moved the motion to delete some of the paragraphs related to setbacks. Said that Emmy Monash does a ‘wonderful job’ with aged care and that there’s a ‘huge demand’ for aged care in Glen Eira. Architects did a fabulous job and they should be ‘commended’ and that ‘they’ve worked very closely with Council’ and the plans end up respecting neighbours and streetscape. Said he chaired the planning conference and that the major concerns were ‘overlooking and overshadowing’ and that proposed tree plantings would cause problems with roots down the track. This latter concern is ‘minor’ and overshadowing meets the regulations as they stand since ‘the law says we must look at the equinox’ (ie summer rather than winter). On setbacks, Lipshutz had ‘looked at that’ and thought ‘there was no need to have further setbacks’ since the developer’s setback is ‘greater than ResCode’. Uban designer wanted more landscaping but given the location Lipshutz ‘commended the application’.
OKOTEL: was very happy with the developer’s efforts to ‘ensure that…character (is) maintained’. Was also pleased that this would ‘provide a much needed facility’ for aged care.
DELAHUNTY: Asked Akehurst why the urban designer had included the set backs
AKEHURST: Said that he understood it wasn’t about the set backs but ‘access’ to the building and the driveway which ‘probably takes up opportunities for landscaping’ so it’s all about getting more landscaping in.
DELAHUNTY: agreed that there’s a strong need for aged care and that the development proposal had taken ‘up much time’ for the Emmy Monash board and staff. Said that the president had written to all councillors ‘outlining the consultation processes’ with neighbours and the expense they had gone to. Said that she first met the president on the ‘campaign trail’ when she was ‘campaigning on my own behalf and he was campaigning’ on behalf of ‘councillor colleagues’ and ‘now we are here again meeting’ over the application. Said that the urban designer had recommended further setbacks and that this ‘was made clear (to applicant) during pre-certification process’ and that it would ‘reduce visual impact of building’. Said that the setback was a ‘sensible compromise’ between community need and ‘neighbourhood amenity’.
SOUNNESS: Admitted that he had spent time with ‘Joe’ as well and thought that the plans were ‘excellent’. There is a need for aged care and the community would support it. Said the setbacks were also supported by the Landscape officer and that for the people who will live there access to the ‘environment is important’. Said that trees are a feature of this area. The design does have 4 storeys and bulk in contrast to the church next door which is ‘setback magnificently’. Said that with the setbacks the possibilities of a 20, 30 metre tree are all ‘compromised’ by the reduction of these setbacks. Said that this is a ‘beautiful development’ but he’s got this reservation about the lack of trees in the area and the bulk and height of the proposed development and therefore against the amendment.
LOBO: said that this was a ‘state of the art’ building and it couldn’t be better. His concern is setback because ‘we always struggle on informing people about setbacks’. Here it is ‘in front’ and he’s got ‘no problems’ since he was told that it is permissable.
ESAKOFF: said that the setbacks are ‘generous’ and ‘in excess’ of what’s ‘legally required’. It’s a much need facility and will be providing ’94 very spacious rooms’ and ‘enormous communal spaces’. Facilities are ‘magnificent’. Said she’s never seen anything that ‘provides the sorts of spaces’ that’s included in the plans. The plans are ‘fantastic’ and will create ‘new benchmarks’ for the future. Well placed and set back from ‘residential properties’ and ‘maximum protection’ from overlooking and overshadowing. They will also be ‘no doubt’ good neighbours, ‘quiet, respectful’.
MAGEE: when he first read it he was ‘quite happy’ with the setback and he was more concerned about the 4th storey. His concern is ‘does it fit’ into the streetscape. Said that he would have been happy with the lower floor setback leaving 1st and 2nd floor ‘exactly as they are’. Won’t support the recommendation because of the 4th floor and that the added 2 metre setback ‘is appropriate’.
HYAMS: welcomed the president to the meeting and said that it’s important to ‘note’ that Emmy Monash is a not for profit organisation so the developer isn’t doing this for his ‘own pocket’. Main concern is about the further 2 metre setback or not. Said he had ‘wrestled’ with this and the issue is about providing canopy trees or providing for people so it ‘comes down to trees versus rooms’. Quoted from the report about ‘social’ needs and ‘community needs’. Spoke about other building and their setbacks including student housing that has a ‘lesser setback’ than proposed here. Because the building is on an angle this would make it ‘less visually dominant’. He’s never seen such an application where there is ‘more planning spaces than required’. Just in case he would need to use his casting vote he ‘takes comfort’ from the fact that Pilling had said he would support the Lipshutz motion.
LIPSHUTZ: said it ‘wasn’t a question of no trees’ but a question of ‘how many trees you have and how much landscaping you do’ and that if he was to ‘weigh up’ amenity and rooms against ‘trees’ the former would win. Also, ‘you can always have more trees’. This application is a ‘template’ of how it should be done because developers worked ‘strongly’ with council, neighbours and ‘took into account’ the objections. Went on to say since Delahunty ‘raised it’ that Krampl certainly did hand out How To Vote Cards for certain candidates’ that this ‘had nothing to do with the application’. Council looks at the application ‘on its merits and not on personality’. The application is ‘well designed’
MOTION PUT TO VOTE AND CARRIED. FOR – ESAKOFF, LIPSHUTZ, LOBO, OKOTEL, HYAMS
AGAINST; DELAHUNTY, SOUNNESS, MAGEE
December 19, 2012 at 12:52 PM
I read this and end up being appalled at the lack of quality, clear thinking and consistency of the arguments that are put up by the various councillors. I could write a thousand words in response to some of the claims, but I’ll restrict myself to only a few observations and leave aside the conflict of interest issues.
1. Lipshutz claims that when it comes to trees versus this much needed facility that he will side with the facilities. Yet a few minutes later he allegedly says that you can always plant more trees. If the setbacks are reduced as Sounness has said, then it will not be possible to plant more trees that are worthy of that name. That’s his first ridiculous statement.
2. Esakoff speaks of maximum protection from overshadowing. The objectors were worried about winter sunlight. The plans do not therrefore provide “maximum” protection all year round.
4. I never realised the proxy voting was permissable as per Hyams reference to Pilling’s vote. I’d even go as far as to say that Pilling’s cited vote in favour of the motion could be contrary to the Local Government Act since councillors can only make decisions based on what they hear in the council chamber and not in assembly meetings. This of course is only in theory and not applicable in Glen Eira.
5. Akehurst’s response from someone in charge of planning is well and truly below par. He should be on top of every single word that comes to a council meeting.
6. Sounness’ words make the most sense surely. This is an aged care facility where there will be fragile and frail elderly people. Garden settings to break up the sense of confinement and concrete is important. Trees, gardens, and landscaping in general should be a prime consideration in such applications.
7. Lobo’s alleged comments are a real worry. He simply does not make any sense on any level. I would have to conclude that Lipshutz told him to vote for his motion and that was enough to “persuade” our councillor.
8. Okotel also needs to get her act into gear and perhaps realise that she is very quickly becoming the Esakoff clone.
8. The real worry however is the acknowledged “co-operation” between council and the developer. I keep asking myself whether objectors obtained this same level of “co-operation” and assistance?
December 19, 2012 at 2:54 PM
Governance, governance, governance, governance. No such thing here. Lipshutz should have declared a conflict right from the start if these blokes were handing out his how to vote cards.
December 19, 2012 at 5:44 PM
You are kidding me this is allowed to happen. Mr Lipshutz hands out how to vote cards and then the return back scratch is enforced! Anything for ‘THE’ community!
December 19, 2012 at 4:38 PM
Check out the application. It went in on the 10/10/2012 smack in the middle of the election period. Don’t know of to many other 4 story developments that get through in about 2 months. Great buddy system at work.
December 19, 2012 at 5:52 PM
You obviously have not read the Local govt Act which very clearly sets out what is a conflict of interest. On my reading Lipshutz did not have any conflict at all. Handing out How to Vote Cards or even providing a donation at election time does not qualify as a conflict.
As for the application itself to suggest that they got it through in 2 months smacks of conspiracy theories. Councillors said that the Applicant had been working with Council Planners for some time. It just seems that once again you are not prepared to give the Councillors any credit. Why is it that the Councillors are always wrong but the bloggers are always right? Let’s give them constructive criticism when it is appropriate but let’s also give them credit when they get it right. I really think this blog has no credibility.
December 19, 2012 at 6:13 PM
Thank you for your comments Mr Richards. As always, we believe that people are entitled to their opinions. However to address some of the comments you’ve made, we wish to point out the following:
Section 78(b)(1) of the Local Government Act, 1989 clearly states:
“78B. Indirect interest because of conflicting duties
(1) A person has an indirect interest in a matter because of a conflicting
duty if the person-
(a) is a manager or a member of a governing body of a company or body that
has a direct interest in a matter;
(b) is a partner, consultant, contractor, agent or employee of a person,
company or body that has a direct interest in a matter;
(c) is a trustee for a person who has a direct interest in a matter.
(2) A person has an indirect interest in a matter because of a conflicting
duty if the person held a position or role specified in subsection (1) and, in
that position or role, dealt with the matter.”
We also remind readers that in the past Crs Staikos and Tang declared conflicts of interest because they were STUDENTS at Monash University (out of a total student population of 40,000+) when a Monash application was before Council.
We do NOT believe that “Councillors are always wrong”. We posit our views based on the evidence before us. If praise is scant, then that is not our fault but that of those you seek to continually ‘pardon”.
December 19, 2012 at 10:17 PM
Lipshutz is clear of any of the above. Just because a bloke handed out HTV cards for someone is not a conflict of interest. It is not a duty he was just helping him out. If you are so sure that something is wrong you better report it and have Lipshutz dealt with. Tang and Staikos were students that did not have a clue so they took then safe road just in case.
How could being a student at Monash be in conflict when they were two amongst 20,000. The Council was dealing with Monash Caulfield not Clayton. I understand that is where these people were studying at Clayton. Also did any councillor report the full list of people that manned the polling booths for the election. That was payment in kind.
Doyle will have no problems.
December 19, 2012 at 10:33 PM
Payment in kind is also considered to be a potential conflict of interest if the “value” of the work or gift exceeds $500.
December 20, 2012 at 7:13 AM
I doubt that you could put a cash value on manning a polling booth of greater than $500. In the case of Lipshuttz if this bloke handed out HTV cards and the amount is not declarable I don’t see any breech.
December 19, 2012 at 7:49 PM
You’re for sure not abreast of the latest political scandals. Mayor Doyle and half of his gang are now worried that they will not have a quorum since they’ve accepted some nice donations from developers and will then have to declare a conflict of interest whenever these people put in an application. I’m afraid that your assertions of what is a conflict of interest just doesn’t hold much credibility.
You might also be interested in one of the early ombudsman’s reports since Penhalluriack was beaten about the ears with his nonsense. The ombudsman also said that “perception” of conflict of interest is just as important. I’d reckon that Lipshutz has used up plenty of his 9 lives on this score alone, much less the legal aspects. One astute commentator has already listed all the instances – frisbee, chabad house, vcat and so on. He is treading on very thin ice I’d say. Hope he can swim!
December 19, 2012 at 11:06 PM
Mr Richards, can Lipshutz ever do anything wrong in your eyes?No matter what happens in your eyes he is still an angel……….interesting!!!
December 19, 2012 at 8:08 PM
Some Councils in Melbourne are dominated by the ALP and Trade unions using slush funds. We have unelected people dictating to the Prime Minister. Darebin council has been run by the ALP for years. It looks like being sacked. Plenty in the paper about this. Glen Eira is small beer. Lipshutz has done nothing wrong. Two months is normal if the applicant does all the leg work before submitting. Keep an eye on the site. It will be built.
December 19, 2012 at 8:31 PM
Where were you when Penhalluriack was attacked for being one of 7 Councillors voting against the mulch facility. The attack was disgusting and fuelled by Newton and Burke. Also heard that the Caulfield Racecourse Park is to open in April. That may be okay for some people around the racecourse but not for the residents of Caulfield North. Lipshutz should quit.
December 19, 2012 at 10:00 PM
Not sure if you are referring to the Booran road park or the racecourse centre. It was not mentioned in the Council meeting yet again, so not sure of your source. The MRC website is also silent as usual
December 20, 2012 at 8:38 AM
Source is David Southwick. My point is that people in Caulfield will benefit by Booran Rd park, Caulfield East and in particular Queens Ave will benefit from the centre park but in Caulfield North – an area that is in desperate need of open space – will get nothing but more development thanks to Lipshutz..
December 20, 2012 at 9:26 PM
Hope this is all true and the park is about to open at long last. Residents have fought long and hard for this and when completed will be great asset for all Glen Eira, especially for those surrounding the racecourse. Unfortunately nothing is on either the Council website or the MRC website and the agreement signed by Lipshutz, Hyams, Pilling, Esakoff and Southwick had it completed by April 2012 so still just a rumour as far as I am concerned.
December 21, 2012 at 9:19 AM
The racecourse park is just one element of the “Agreement”, albeit an important one. We still don’t know why Council sat on the application for a Planning Permit for 7 months though, but that obviously delayed it. Although not requiring a Permit, the MRC failed to honour the commitment concerning replacement of certain sections of the fence within 12 months of the Agreement. And we’re now past the 18-month mark so according to the Agreement: “Consultation on design commensurate with risk management and involving residents of Queen’s Avenue is to commence within 18 months of the date of this agreement”. What are the odds that hasn’t happened either?
December 27, 2012 at 4:24 PM
Not only have the MRC not honoured it, but Glen Eira Council have failed to maintain around the outside of the racecourse. I had thought it was to niggle Penhalluriack, but the lack of maintenance has gotten worse. The bike path along Queens Avenue is no longer safe to ride and speed and parking signs are now hidden by dense growth. Hasn’t stopped the speed cameras though.
December 27, 2012 at 8:33 PM
It’s somewhat ironic that a speed camera is not allowed to be hidden by vegetation but a street sign is allowed. If I got a speeding fine along there, I would be taking it up with VicRoads rather than wasting time talking to this Council.
December 27, 2012 at 9:47 PM
It’s Strict Liability, Vfh. You’d be wasting a phone call.
December 19, 2012 at 9:24 PM
Spoken for and on behalf of the Liaberal Party.
There is a clear conflict of interest here as demonstrated by GE. Lipshutz has little respect for the democratic process. He was elected principally by the Jewish community to act in their interests. At least he has stuck by his constituency.Unlike the graduate of Pacific Southern University who has walked away from his constituency. Shameful!
December 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM
Once upon a time there was a monkey who believed he had a red bum. Liberal (even he could spell Liberal properly) party in Victoria is a one term government and no chance whatsoever in 2014 elections. Have a chat with people from Bentleigh and East Bentleigh to find out how they are doing there.
December 19, 2012 at 10:08 PM
It gets worse. Lipshutz also chaired the planning conference.
December 20, 2012 at 1:28 AM
The only favour is to the developer, not to any of the residents within the establishment.
Fancy the setback being altered by the councillor and then his pretending tht he is delivering his people to a special olace of abode.
Wouldn’t it be nice for them to have a reasonable area nearby where they could re;lax.
The only gratifying part is that this councillor may live there!
December 20, 2012 at 3:02 PM
I don’t believe Cr Lipschutz did have a conflict of interest here, if using the definition provided by LGA, as the provision of volunteer labour is explicitly excluded from the definition of a gift. Donations of money are a different matter. However it could be argued he breached the Councillors Code of Conduct under 4.2.4: “Councillors must not place themselves under any financial or other obligation to any individual, interest group or organisation that might reasonably be thought to influence them in the performance of their duties as Councillors”.
I’m more concerned about some of the comments made by Councillors in support of a 4-storey building with minimal landscaping in the area. There are no other 4-storey buildings in the area, making it impossible to be considered consistent with the prevailing character. If anything, the prevailing character is single-storey, or at most two-storey, dwellings with significant front set backs and canopy trees in those setbacks. This is immaterial if Council decides their preferred character is a treeless one, but if so, that should be stated in GEPS.
The front setbacks are problematic, as the officer report correctly identifies. The proposed increased setback was to support canopy trees to mask the large and somewhat monolithic bulk. I don’t know where Cr Esakoff got her information about legal requirement being 6m, but that is untrue. There is no legal requirement per se for any setback.
Its zone is RZ1, same as where I live. The Schedule to the Zone doesn’t list a specific requirement, so it defaults to Standards A3 and B6. It has been argued by some unscrupulous members of the Development community that Standard B6 doesn’t apply to buildings 4- or more storeys high on account of the bizarre loophole that s55 [which contains B6] doesn’t apply. If B6 *did* apply, the requirement would be for the average of the setbacks of its two neighbours or 9m, whichever is the lesser. The adjacent church has, as Cr Sounness pointed out, a very substantial setback. Personally, I’m dubious about the value of the porte-cochere, and would have preferred to see a more sensible use of land including increasing landscaping opportunities.
Comments about the applicant being a “not-for-profit” organisation are another concern, and Council should point to the section in GEPS that they believe makes that a relevant consideration in assessing a planning application. Alternatively it could be another breach of their Code.
I’m only against the overblown rhetoric used here in support of the application, not necessarily the application itself. For a very different outcome when assessing an application for an Aged Care facility, I encourage people to read VCAT P1055/2009 and decide whether they would have reached the same conclusions as the Tribunal.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2009/1055.html
December 20, 2012 at 3:55 PM
For a streetscape of a retirement living facility in a different municipality, spanning 4 levels rather than 4-storeys due to the slope of the hill, people could use Google Map’s streetview of 45-51 Banool Road Balwyn. It has an unfortunate twee name (Aveo Concierge), but apart from that it has significant front landscaping and setbacks, along with the articulation we generally expect these days. [Not so happy about it having only 1- and 2-bedroom apartments though.]
December 27, 2012 at 11:51 PM
(MODERATORS: comment deleted as claims are unsubstantiated)