Lipshutz moved motion to permit 6 storeys, 4 shops, reduction in car parking and 45 dwellings. Seconded by Sounness.
LIPSHUTZ: was ‘conscious’ of residents around area and that there were lots of high rise with ‘no infrastructure’ to go with them. Traffic is a problem especially with 6 storey development very close by. There is ‘creeping development’ and therefore he’s seeking to ‘reduce it to 6’ storeys which is ‘more in line’ with what’s already going up.
SOUNNESS: did ‘recognise’ that an urban village has got ‘certain features’ and that if this was close to a train station 8 storeys would be suitable. Since it’s not, then 6 storeys is “appropriate”. ‘Recognised’ that the ‘design of the building is good’. Said he was “a bit uncomfortable with 6′ but ‘can’t see any compelling reasons to refuse’ the application. For him, ‘6 is a compromise’. It’s not ideal but is better than refusal which ‘may not stand up to scrutiny at VCAT’.
DELAHUNTY: favoured a ‘refusal’. Said that there are more and more ‘high quality apartments’ and she does support high density living but ‘not at the expense of infrastructure’. Spoke about real estate agents telling people that Glen Eira is not like Richmond because Glen Eira doesn’t have the same open space problems, traffic problems, etc. But that in time ‘the more we allow’ these sorts of building to go up, then the more ‘we’ve moving towards being like Richmond’ and it’s the residents who have to put up with this. Said that until developers leave the city ‘as they found it’ (ie with open space, ‘and traffic catered for’) she won’t support this application/motion.
LOBO: Said that councillors had promised not to ‘encourage development of such monstrosity’. Said that people want to know the definition of ‘intense development’. Lobo then asked Akehurst to define it. Akehurst said that the terms of ‘low, medium, high’ density aren’t defined in the Planning Scheme. Lobo then quoted from the planning scheme about being as ‘sympathetic as possible to neighbourhood character’ and wanted to know how the state was going to achieve a population of 5 million people. Asked ‘why are we ignoring’ transport’… ‘this is beyond my comprehension’. Said that the policy from 1999 ‘needs a review’ and that Rescode recipe for parking spaces ‘is a joke’ since most dwellings have 2 cars and people don’t always use public tranport. Went on to talk about overshadowing, and overlooking ‘neighbours bathroom’ so people can’t have showers ‘in their birthday suits’ and will possibly end up ‘using pyjamas’ whilst showering. Said that it’s ‘disappointing’ that councillors are now reneging on the election promises.
PILLING: ‘sympathised’ with Lobo and Delahunty but refusing isn’t the answer as it ‘will lead to’ vcat perhaps giving 8 storeys. This solution of 6 storeys is ‘more practical outcome’. Also said that ‘looking at the bigger picture’ there are issues about height and that there’s ‘increasingly’ a diversion of views between councillors and the community about ‘what is a reasonable height’. Said that that’s where the ‘heart of the issue lies’ and that all they’ve been doing is ‘tinkering’ at the edges and that ‘we really need to develop a more solid approach’ so that when developers come to council they fully know ‘what’s expected’. Said that this is worse than the previous 12 storey application in Carnegie because the Carnegie one was at least a ‘commercial’ area but this one is smaller and backs onto 2 storey places. Said that there ‘needs to be more guidance’ about height levels and expectations because ‘at the moment the sky….is the limit’. Said he ‘wasn’t sure’ about the answer, but knew that they ‘had to do something’ because at ‘the moment it’s become increasingly ad hoc’.
HYAMS: asked Lobo whether he said that Lipshutz was ignoring the recommendations of transport planning. Lobo answered that he didn’t say that and Hyams then ‘confirmed’ that Lobo ‘didn’t say that we were ignoring’ transport recommendations. Said that Lobo talked about what councillors said in election campaigns but that he only said that he would ‘be opposing inappropriate development’ and ‘inappropriate’ is all in ‘the eye of the beholder’. It doesn’t mean ‘oppose everything’ and that people have to ‘apply the planning law’ in order to decide whether an application is ‘appropriate or not’. Said this was an urban village and went on to list the cirteria such as size, orientation, etc. He agreed that ‘8 storeys is too high’ but since there was going to be 6 storeys near Coles, that this one was ‘probably appropriate’. Went on to talk about how the impact was taken into consideration by the waste management plan and other imposed conditions. Agreed with Pilling’s concerns about height and said that ‘it is a bit of a dog’s breakfast’. Said that a problem was that if you set height limits then ‘people will build up to that height and you can’t stop them’ but if you don’t have height limits and let each application be ‘judged on its merits’ then you could get ‘better outcomes’. Also council policies ‘aren’t enforceable at VCAT’. Talked about the zoning reforms and that these would be ‘prescriptive’ so the ‘greater certainty’ that they want will ‘come in’ in the next year or so. In this case he thought that Lipshutz’s motion was ‘appropriate’.
LIPSHUTZ: said that both Lobo and Delahunty had identified ‘deficiencies in the planning system’. Said that Melbourne was going to get higher density without sufficient transport, but all this isn’t ‘for us to decide’. Said that things aren’t going to stay the same. Councillors have to make decisions on planning law and they are a ‘quasi tribunal’ and the ‘law is not scientific’ and on what each individual regards ‘as appropriate or inappropriate’. Said he’d like to see no changes along Glen Huntly Rd but ‘that isn’t going to happen’ and that by voting against he’s ‘not doing anyone a service’ because the ‘developer will go to VCAT and get his 8 storeys’. Putting down 6 storeys means that ‘you can go to vcat and argue that cogently’/ It’s ‘nice’ to be populist but that’s not ‘realistic’ and ‘I’d rather be realistic’. 6 storeys ‘is a compromise’ but which ‘vcat more than likely will support’.
MOTION PUT. Lobo asked for a division.
IN FAVOUR – PILLING, ESAKOFF, LIPSHUTZ, HYAMS, SOUNNESS, OKOTEL
AGAINST – DELAHUNTY, LOBO, MAGEE
February 6, 2013 at 11:07 AM
I can’t believe what I’m reading. Pilling’s been on council for 4 years and he still isn’t sure what to do. The others who’ve been there for years don’t have a clue either. How about pulling your fingers out and stop blaming the government for everything and look at the shemozzle you let Newton get away with. Fix the dam planning scheme now.
February 6, 2013 at 11:35 AM
No one ever seems to mention where will the children play
February 7, 2013 at 9:23 AM
Gee I’ve raised it, here, at public forums, in letters to papers. I also know where some of my neighbour’s children play—on the concrete driveway of the 1960s walkup flats they live in. Over time though children are vanishing from the area, as the multiunit developments are not suitable for them, especially with no open space nearby. This is Council policy, but I don’t support it.
February 6, 2013 at 11:58 AM
A very weak and disappointing response from Pilling and equally lame input by Sounness. Both of whom seem to have conveniently forgotten who put them there.
It seems it’s open season on building units over shops judging by what’s happening in North Road. 😥
February 6, 2013 at 12:22 PM
Either the majority of these councillors are incredibly stupid or they are the pawns of Newton and his development agenda. Sounness practically admits that eight storeys is about to become the standard near transport. Mind you, there is not one iota of fact provided to justify such an objective. Others rely on the precedent example – it’s already there, so another one won’t matter. This begs the question entirely as to why those other ones were permitted to be built in the first place. Pilling’s hand wringing is insulting especially since he’s been there for four years as someone pointed out. During this time he and his colleagues have done nothing to address height limits. Only now, when it’s probably too late, does it dawn on him that something needs doing – but even this is off in the far distance, awaiting the marvellous zone reforms that this council will accept holus bolus.
Lobo’s diatribe also misses the point entirely. Agreed that local government must pay homage to state legislation but, and this is a huge BUT, there is much that is under their control and that they can at least attempt many things such as height limits, prescriptive urban design frameworks and so forth. Under Newton none of this has even been contemplated much less started upon – despite the grand promises contained in the planning scheme.
Lipshutz and Hyams in particular are the mouthpieces for those who control things. Their statements are deliberately misleading and beyond the pale. It would be good to know exactly how many developments that council knocked down by a few storeys were successful at vcat. Remember the 10 storey application in Glenhuntly Rd where a permit was granted for 8? Vcat restored the 10 levels. There have been several in Carnegie where one storey was lopped off and Vcat granted the 5 again.
Hyams views are frankly, laughable. One the one hand everything is in the eye of the beholder and then we’re told that they have to apply planning law. If the law and that means council’s planning scheme was tight enough and didn’t contain the vague useless platitudes that it does, and planners adhered to their own criteria, then the eye of the beholder isn’t an issue. The quibbling over what is or is not “appropriate” is also unacceptable. Most people would have a pretty good idea that 8 or 10 or 12 storeys isn’t appropriate in Glen Eira, regardless of where this is located. So now we get the most offensive lawyer’s trick of semantics – I only said I would oppose inappropriate development – and this isn’t inappropriate to my mind’s eye. Utter rubbish.
What people should also realise is that other councils aren’t sitting on their hands and waiting for the zoning reforms to come in. They are moving amendments as fast as they can in the attempt to protect their neighbourhoods and residents. Glen Eira sits back and will wait for the axe to fall and then grin and say we’re protecting you with 8 to 10 storeys all over the place and commercial properties in residential zones.
February 6, 2013 at 3:43 PM
It’s been mentioned here many, many times that Glen Eira Council is relying on policies that go back to the dark ages. None of these have been reviewed for well over a decade, yet decisions are being constantly made that are clearly outdated since they are based on antiquated data sets. Why proper reviews have not been conducted is anyone’s guess. My interpretation is that looking at the most recent data will reveal all the inadequacies of the planning objectives and thus strategy. There is also the possibility that having latest figures might just mean that a halt has to be called to the rampant development that is allowed to proceed unchecked. It’s most convenient to keep citing Melbourne 2030 and @5 million, when Glen Eira has already far exceeded it population forecasts. Anything that would put a damper on multi-unit development and not bring in more rates to balance the books is shunned and ignored. In the end it is residents who are paying for poor planning and a vision that has truly run its course.
February 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM
You seem to be confused about the rating system. In simple terms the more rayepayers then the cheaper the rates. Once the budget is struck that amount is divided by the number of ratepayers.
February 6, 2013 at 5:42 PM
I’m not referring to individual rates. What I’m stating is that when the costs of services go up, either through extravagance, poor planning, poor budgeting, massive staff increases, and massive payouts to consultants, then more money has to come in. The easiest way of doing this is to collect more rates (in total) simply because there are more properties from which to collect those rates from.
February 7, 2013 at 7:29 AM
My poiny was theoretical. In real terms you are right. I envisage the day when Glen Huntly Rd Elsterwick looks similar to the part of Chapel St between Toorak Rd and the Yarra. That is an Urban Village. Only way to stop this is to ensure people stop breeding.
February 6, 2013 at 4:33 PM
The number of storeys is really, on its own, not the issue…
What is critically missing from the GE Council decsion making is -what is the Council’s big picture & what sort of municipality do we (residents/rtaepayers) want GE to be (ie. medium sized density development – ensuring high standard of quality of life, with ‘good’ amount of open space/parkland, etc)
I dont see the Council has linked & assessed development decisions against any Strategies, for eg. road safety or GE Environment strategy, for instance reducing C02, promoting & measuring reduction on car relinace, advocating vigorously State Govt for more public transport available & convenient, introducing more Council buses & covering a greater area, making local streets safe from traffic diverting away from main drags such as G’Huntly Rd), etc….
This is the context against which any new development should be assessed (so that theres a robust comparison point). Instaed as usual what we get from thsio Council is haphazard & ad hoc decision-making by Council & councillors (even some of the new councillors).
Mr Sounness- what happened to your Green credentials? Mary can’t do it alone..
February 6, 2013 at 9:19 PM
Terrific comment that makes lots of sense. Residents have spoken time after time about what they want. These people just don’t listen. The community plan hasn’t got a fraction of the things that people said they cared about and what is there is a total joke. Amenity and serving the people isn’t on the horizon whilst this pack of councillor turncoats are there.
February 6, 2013 at 4:41 PM
The residents of Camden Ward were glad to see Cr. Lobo defending inappropiate developments; a promise he made along with other Councillors and those who wanted to be Councillor. Cr. Sounness will learn soon how the group of 4 have maneouver . Cr. Okotel is a mouth piece of Cr. Esakoff and the letter is paying off her debt for being elected with the preference from Cr. Esakoff. Cr. Pilling was not her favourite this time and Cr. Pilling knows that for sure.
February 6, 2013 at 6:45 PM
Based on his past performance, Hyams has reached to the height of arrogance similar to Kenneth rule. Cr. Hyams has obvious way to show the gallery that he is always right. As a Mayor and a leader he needs to project his position with respect. We cannot see what Cr. Lobo has seen in him. Cr. Hyams is similar to Cr. Essakoff – birds of same feather ………..
February 6, 2013 at 9:20 PM
Delahunty Lobo and Magee would be best served if they just blindly followed Newton like Lipshutz, Hyams, Pilling and Esakoff have done for years now. Newtons lapdogs. Looks like he has recruited a couple more.
February 6, 2013 at 9:57 PM
Ah yes, the Gang of Four. Glen Eira, maybe you could follow up on whatever happened to the Caulfield racecourse agreement to be implemented no later than 27 April 2012. Looks like the gang really stitched up the ratepayers on that one.
February 6, 2013 at 10:04 PM
Magee’s request for a report featured some “discussion” on the racecourse. We will report on this, hopefully by tomorrow evening.
February 7, 2013 at 10:26 AM
interesting the article by Andrea is balanced by a cricket and football club saying they dont need more space. Good that someone is standing up for the MRCs right to the land
February 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM
The biggest weakness in Council when it comes to Planning is Cr Lipschutz. Far from being a “quasi tribunal”, Council is the Responsible Authority and Planning Authority—which VCAT isn’t. Planning Law doesn’t cover what the decisions should be, but it does require Planning Schemes to be considered. If Council was truly serious about assessing a planning application against Planning Schemes, SPPF, Guidelines for Higher Density Residential Development, then these would be discussed in greater detail in officer reports. Council will never be able to argue its decisions cogently at VCAT unless it can refer to relevant policies to support their decisions. The Guidelines contain such policies, but Council has ignored them. VCAT might overturn Council’s decision: after all that undemocratic, unrepresentative, unaccountable body can do what it likes and doesn’t have to pay for the consequences. But what VCAT *might* decide is not a decision criteria under Planning Law. Its supposed to “stand in the shoes” of the decision-maker, yet rarely does.